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Originally Posted by abaya
As for the Yanomami, I don't know what we're arguing about there. We both agree that they're one of the most well-known violent people groups in the world. You want me to give more evidence to refute a position that you already agree with?... I'm confused.
Now, as to your approach: Okay. What I hear you saying is that you think individuals living in advanced nation states and complex societies are, by sole virtue of being born into those societies, more peaceful and "domesticated." Is that right? And conversely, you believe that any individual born into a "hunter-gatherer" society, whether yesterday or thousands of years ago, will be innately more violent and prone to killing and injuring other people. Am I following you?
So it doesn't matter what kind of human being you are... it only matters what kind of society you are born into, right? So those groups of Kenyans massacring each other over the weekend?... violent because they were not born into an advanced nation state, and for no other reason. They'll never stop being violent. And those 400-500 murders that take place each year in Philly, New York, etc... violent because... they were born into an advanced nation state?... The people who were violent and dangerous during Hurricane Katrina, getting in fights over food and water... hunter gatherers? Oh wait, they were born into a civilized society, so I thought they were supposed to be more cooperative and domesticated?
But what I don't agree with is the extension of that general theory, into individual behaviors...
I guess I just don't see how you can disagree with the idea that we are all capable of being violent assholes, given a particular set of circumstances and pressures.
Am I misunderstanding your point? Please let me know. Frankly, if we are just miscommunicating about a common point, I'd rather be done with this seemingly pointless thread.  |
Re the Yanomami - you seemed to be dismissive of them because their society is talked about in introductory anthro classes. This is why I have responded as I did.
Re being born into advanced societies - generally, I think we (that is to say Europeans, Chinese, etc) have evolved to fit those societies. We have evolved to fit into these societies at a genetic level because it benefits us, and so we have learned to live in close proximity to one another without resorting to violence to resolve issues (in general) just as being a little more aggressive complements many hunter-gatherer lifestyles.
Human beings are as succeptible to ongoing evolution as ever - we have evolved to fit our environments. I don't see that as any great leap of logic.
Now, understand, this is a general not specific situation. You cannot attribute any one act - be it rioting Kenyans or murders in Detroit - to this fact. Nor does it mean that every European is less violent than the next hunter-gatherer - there is a great deal of overlap. But I do believe some general conclusions, as already outlined, can be drawn from the studies already mentioned.
I'm not sure why you see the thread as pointless, abaya. I think there has been a lot of worthwhile discussion, even if I don't agree with everyone's POV.
I do wish you would try to cite some studies yourself if you disagree with me, especially after I went out of my way to answer your question.