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Originally Posted by Elphaba
Perhaps I wasn't clear, Will. I gave you a real situation about me and my first husband. We were watching ptsd melt down our marriage (thus the fear), and his fear of abandonment was causing more and more physical control. The feared pregnancy was due to failed contraception. Would it change your OP much if Mr. Elph faked the use of contraception?
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I was trying desperately to steer the conversation away from something deeply personal that could be misinterpreted as an appeal to emotion while simultaneously showing you respect that I want to show. You're very good people and the last thing I'd want to do is be disrespectful to you (or your husband).
I'll try to make this clear:
I stated clearly that this thread is about situations where two consenting adults have intercourse without contraception. Failed contraception means that your situation does not fall under the scope of this thread.
The last thing I want to do is be dismissive of your situation, which was clearly serious. It's just not a part of this particular thread.
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Originally Posted by mixedmedia
No offense, Will, but I think this exhibits a real naivete to the dynamics of an emotionally abusive relationship. And I'll go so far as to say that any law requiring women to have children because the father wants them to will be just as likely to be as a means of controlling the woman as it is to satisfy some dude who got laid one night and decided he wanted the resulting kid.
From what I see of the arguments in your favor here (not necessarily yours), they are predicated on two factors:
1. resentment towards women
and
2. anti-abortion stances
I don't trust arguments based on either of these attitudes to be in the interest of real men dealing conscientiously with this issue.
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While my degree in psychology doesn't make me an expert on the dynamics of relationships from a psychological perspective, it pretty much precludes naivete on the subject.
I appreciate the false choice fallacy, though, as it actually proves my points. My stance is pro-equality, which indicates that your two factors are not the only two factors that could be in play. I don't resent women, and my stance on abortion has to do with personal responsibility, which of course ties into this but it's hardly the whole case.
As for this: [QUOTEmixedmedia]... I'll go so far as to say that any law requiring women to have children because the father wants them to will be just as likely to be as a means of controlling the woman as it is to satisfy some dude who got laid one night and decided he wanted the resulting kid.[/QUOTE]
You realize how sexist this comes off, right? All men either are controlling or are idiots? Or did you miss group 3, good men who not only want to take responsibility for their actions but also want children? Or do you believe that they don't exist?
Yikes.