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Originally Posted by jewels443
.....WTF? My cries of discrimination must be firewalled here.
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jewels443, in you post #38 on page 1, you posted:
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Originally Posted by jewels443
......The shame is that there are many seniors, especially those born in the south and in other countries, that have difficulty acquiring birth certificates when none were kept. I always wonder how they got buy for 70 - 90 years without an ID or passport.......
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I am sorry I interpreted your sentences in my reply to pan, as supporting the opinion that a new Voter ID requirement is "discriminatory against blacks", if that is not inferred by you in that post....
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Originally Posted by Seaver
So Host, you're trying REALLY hard to avoid the topic here. Why is a picture attached to an ID so bad? If it is the Republicans who are truly so bad at stealing elections, shouldn't you support a measure like this? Shouldn't you be trying to stop these election frauds with even the most simple steps, such as the same basic security as a kid having a beer with a meal?
"BUT BUSH!"
Enough, this isn't about Bush or any tin-foil hat theory you've found on the web. This is a baby step in slowing down voting fraud.
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Seaver, since this is the way this thread's OP ended:
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
.....Will it provide for less voter fraud or suppress a segment of the voting population? You decide.
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....and because I've done a thorough and persuasive job of demonstrating that the "vote fraud" the Indiana "Voter ID" was justified as "preventing", does not, in fact, exist....it is a fraudulant component of a 30 years old coordinated republican vote suppression "Op", I thought, and continue to think it is the most important thing to post about, here.
The concept of someone showing up at the polls, claiming to be someone else is ridiculous, not believable. Is it not true that no Voter ID is required to submit a vote by absentee ballot?
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http://www.slate.com/id/2166589/
The Fraudulent Fraud SquadThe incredible, disappearing American Center for Voting Rights.
By Richard L. Hasen
Posted Friday, May 18, 2007, at 1:41 PM ET
.....The death of ACVR says a lot about the Republican strategy of raising voter fraud as a crisis in American elections. Presidential adviser Karl Rove and his allies, who have been ghostbusting illusory dead and fictional voters since the contested 2000 election, apparently mounted a two-pronged attack. One part of that attack, at the heart of the current Justice Department scandals, involved getting the DoJ and various U.S. attorneys in battleground states <a target="_blank" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/13/AR2007051301106.html">to vigorously prosecute cases of voter fraud</a>. That prong has failed. After exhaustive effort, the Department of Justice discovered <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/12/washington/12fraud.html?ei=5088&en=277feccfa099c7d0&ex=1334030400&pagewanted=all">virtually no polling-place voter fraud</a>, and its efforts to fire the U.S. attorneys in battleground states who did not push the voter-fraud line enough has backfired. Even if Attorney General Gonzales <a target="_blank" href="http://www.slate.com/id/2166557/">declines to resign his position</a>, his reputation has been irreparably damaged.</p><p>But the second prong of this attack may have proven more successful. This involved using ACVR to give "think tank" academic cachet to the unproven idea that voter fraud is a major problem in elections. That cachet would be used to support the passage of onerous voter-identification laws that depress turnout among the poor, minorities, and the elderly—groups more likely to vote Democratic. Where the Bush administration may have failed to nail illegal voters, the effort to suppress minority voting has <a target="_blank" href="http://moritzlaw.osu.edu/electionlaw/comments/articles.php?ID=147">borne more fruit</a>, as more states pass these laws, and courts begin to uphold them in the name of beating back waves of largely imaginary voter fraud. </p><p>Perhaps even with the demise of ACVR, the hard work—of giving credibility to a nonproblem—is done. The short organizational history of ACVR, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.bradblog.com/?page_id=4418">chronicled indefatigably</a> by Brad Friedman of the Brad Blog, shows that the group was founded just days before its representatives testified before a congressional committee hearing on election-administration issues chaired by then-Rep. (and now federal inmate) Bob Ney. The group was headed by Hearne, national election counsel to Bush-Cheney '04, and <a target="_blank" href="http://www.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=21015">staffed with other Republican operatives</a>, including Jim Dyke, a former RNC communications director. </p><p>Consisting of <a target="_blank" href="http://www.bradblog.com/?p=1283">little more than a post-office box</a> and some staffers who wrote reports and gave helpful quotes about the pervasive problems of voter fraud to the press, the group <a target="_blank" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20060210111249/www.ac4vr.com/reports/072005/letterofintroduction.html">identified Democratic cities as hot spots for voter fraud</a>, then pushed the line that "election integrity" required making it harder for people to vote. The group <a target="_blank" href="http://web.archive.org/web/20060209215847/http:/www.ac4vr.com/reports/032405/OhioElectionReport.pdf">issued reports</a> (PDF) on areas in the country of special concern, areas that coincidentally tended to be presidential battleground states. In many of these places, it now appears the White House was pressuring U.S. attorneys to bring more voter-fraud prosecutions.</p><p>ACVR's method of argument followed a familiar line, first set out by <em>Wall Street Journal </em>columnist John Fund in his book, <em>Stealing Elections</em>....
.....The DoJ devoted unprecedented resources to ferreting out polling-place fraud over five years and appears to have found <em>not a single prosecutable case</em> across the country. The <a target="_blank" href="http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/national/20070411voters_draft_report.pdf">major bipartisan draft fraud report</a> (PDF) (recently <a target="_blank" href="http://www.slate.com/id/2166287/entry/0/">posted </a>by <strong><em>Slate</em></strong> and <a target="_blank" href="http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/11/washington/11voters.html">suppressed</a> by the U.S. Election Assistance Commission [TimesSelect subscription required]) concluded that there is very <em>little</em> polling-place fraud in the United States. Of the many experts the commission consulted, <a target="_blank" href="http://www.slate.com/id/2166287/entry/0/">the only dissenter</a> from that position was a representative of the now-evaporated ACVR.</p><p>Perhaps it is not surprising that ACVR has collapsed as an organization. In what appears to be one of Hearne's last public appearances (where he <a target="_blank" href="http://www.eac.gov/docs/Hearne-Testimony-EAC-2006-Election.pdf">identifies himself</a> [PDF] as having <em>served</em>—note past tense—as counsel to ACVR) before the EAC in December of 2006, Hearne offered the usual arguments. In support of his position that voter-ID laws did not unconstitutionally suppress the votes of poor and minority voters, Hearne cited the decision of the DoJ to approve the pre-clearance of Georgia's voter-ID law, and a law review article supporting such laws, written under the pseudonym Publius. Hearne didn't reveal that the decision on Georgia <a target="_blank" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/11/16/AR2005111602504.html">was made by political appointees of the DoJ over the strong objections of career attorneys</a> there who believed the law was indeed discriminatory. Nor did he explain that (<a target="_blank" href="http://electionlawblog.org/archives/005295.html">as I discovered and blogged about </a>a few years earlier) <a target="_blank" href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/12/AR2006041201950.html">Publius was none other than Hans von Spakovsky</a>, then serving as one of the political DoJ officials who approved the Georgia voter-ID law. (President Bush later gave <a target="_blank" href="http://www.fec.gov/members/von_Spakovsky/von_Spakovsky.shtml">von Spakovsky</a> a recess appointment to the Federal Election Commission.) </p><p>The arguments against vote fraud were built on a house of cards, a house that is collapsing as quickly as the U.S. attorney investigation moves forward. </p><p>So Hearne let the organization collapse, and in a bit of irony, a Washington lawyer who bought the <a target="_blank" href="http://americancenterforvotingrights.com/">ACVR domain name</a> has set it <a target="_blank" href="http://electionlawblog.org/archives/008380.html">to redirect</a> to the Brennan Center's <a target="_blank" href="http://truthaboutfraud.org/analysis_reports/">Truth About Fraud</a> Web site, which debunks ACVR's claims of polling-place voter fraud. But despite the collapse of ACVR, the idea that there is massive polling-place voter fraud has, perhaps irrevocably, entered the public consciousness. It has <a target="_blank" href="http://www.slate.com/id/2152116/">infected even the Supreme Court's thinking about voter-ID laws</a>. And it has provided intellectual cover <a target="_blank" href="http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=976701">for the continued partisan pursuit</a> of voter-ID laws that may suppress minority votes. Just this week, Republican members of the Texas state Senate are trying to push through a voter-ID law over a threatened Democratic filibuster. Their political machinations have already required a Democratic state senator <a target="_blank" href="http://electionlawblog.org/archives/008406.html">recovering from a liver transplant</a> to show up to vote—and they almost passed the bill when another Democratic senator <a target="_blank" href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/4806873.html">came down with the stomach flu</a>. </p><p>Texas legislators should be ashamed. <h2>All of this effort to enact a law that would stop a nonexistent problem.</h2>....
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There is no "in person at the polls on voting day" fraud, Seaver. There were no WMD, either....sheesh !!!!!!!!!!!!
(Seaver, if you suddenly get curious enough to read the Slate piece above, by the Loyola law professor, and you click on a link that turns out to be dead, I'm pretty good at finding the page the link was intended to point to, or the material that was on it when the link was live. Please PM me or post a request here, and I'll try to find it for you.)