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n0nsensical · 01-03-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pan6467

See, I have to disagree with this statement. Politics/religion/spirituality/philosophy etc. are based on theory, one's experiences, what one can see/feel or believe to be wrong or right. Sometimes one just says, "I feel this way....." or "In my opinion and belief I believe this..." They cannot always be put into words or explained because they just are. Or if put into those phrases "I believe this...", "In my opinion...." and one relates why, it never seems to be a "good enough" answer for others.

Let's say someone says they believe X to be true. Now, in the Politics thread, one is attacked right away and asked why, what proof do you have to believe in X.

This puts the person on the defensive right away because 99% of the time the question is asked accusingly and the writer is treated like they know nothing.

So the person posts in a defensive manner why they believe X to be true. Now, if it is because of experience, opinion or "based on just a feeling" they are really attacked. Out comes the articles, the belittling, the attacks on the person.

Instead of constructive conversation to help each other understand the other, the posts become about winning an argument not about sharing ideas. So the end result becomes either the original poster pushes back because no one showed enough respect to talk to the person as an adult and a person but rather put them immediately on the defensive, that person either leaves or becomes more defensive to the point they become aggressive. And then the possibility of any civilized give and take conversation is gone.

Also, if someone posts a bunch of articles from a biased source, for people to read, but does not add anything of their own (maybe a few sentences) then nothing is achieved either. The average poster/reader feels they can find their own sources to read based on their own bias, why comment on something that even the poster really doesn't comment on?

It's like if I post article after article saying that the KINKS were the greatest band ever.... but I never truly add anything substantive from myself, someone will post article after article of why they weren't with no commentary of their own and nothing is achieved. Or they'll get tired of hearing me say it and rebel against it even if they agreed at first (overkill).

but if someone simply "believes" something and doesn't want to discuss supporting evidence, then I don't understand the point in any discussion at all, nobody is going to accept outside input about what they believe and then the board is just everyone spouting off an opinion that no one else cares about. I don't think there is nearly that much room for belief in political discussion, that's religion and religion and politics do not mix. if you ask me that's basically the reason we have such shitty politicians (on both sides) in this country these days, is that all they want to talk about is beliefs and feelings (like think of the children!) and nobody's bringing up the FACTS.

Quote:

My point is there has to be acceptance and respect of the other's basic premise and the desire, ability and care to communicate your views back to them, in order to truly move forward. Anything short of those and all you end with is nothing but anger, personal attacks and negativity towards the whole encounter.

It's not that hard to do:

Poster A: I believe there should be Universal Healthcare.....

Poster B: I understand but I don't see it working because of .......

Then A and B can discuss their opinions with posters C-Z being able to share their points of view and add constructively to the "debate".

I know when I have talked about this in the past, people say we can't change anything so why does it matter?

Well, if TFP is different and "more mature" than other boards, we can achieve a Politics Board that will gain much respect throughout and bring more good posters in for true debate, education and mind expansion.

If it continues the way it is.... few will reside there.

But I do agree with you here, that an attitude adjustment will certainly help. The board is flooded with arrogance and general lack of respect for other points of view. I just think it's better than not to leave space for facts and evidence. I'm not sure a new forum is the answer. Maybe people should be more prepared to back themselves up if that is truly a problem they have.