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Old 01-02-2008, 06:25 PM   #28 (permalink)
host
Banned
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by willravel
Osama Bin Laden has never once taken responsibility for 9/11. All he has done is given much praise and commendation for those responsible.

But hey, why pay attention to facts? It's not like Americans need facts about... well anything.
Ah...tfp website is accessible again. There was some kind of a backbone problem on the internet path (ashland, va) that my provider routes requests for tfproject.org through.....

I DON'T want this thread to go in this direction, but I'll back up what willravel posted because it seems to be part of the actual record:

You can visit these three locations to find more on the contention that bin Laden has never been officially declared personally responsible for planning or executing the 9/11 attacks:

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle13664.htm

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082700687.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by host
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...&postcount=224
Since you mentioned it, here's a rehash of links to media coverage of 9/11
including an interesting admission about the alleged 9/11 hijackers by FBI
director Mueller....they left no paper trail ! The 9/11 Commission determined
that Osama Bin Laden did not fund the 9/11 attacks. What do we really know ?
roachboy...responding to your post (#12):
Quote:
Originally Posted by roachboy
so wait....before the snarkiness mounts...

the op seems to hinge on a linkage between the destroyed interrogation tapes and 9/11 attacks....i dont really see the linkage--the case in the op seems circumstantial, so that IF you were inclined to doubt the official line a priori, you COULD fit the tapes into it---but that presupposes an inclination to doubt a priori.

how would you argue to someone who is NOT inclined to doubt the official story that there are grounds TO doubt it?

in other words, i think the op presupposes what it could (or should, depending on your view of such things) argue directly.

the older threads on this have been mostly in paranoia...i suspect that folk have read through some of that stuff at least, so i'm NOT asking for a plot summary---just the argument, please.
I created this thread because this is not the first instance that the 9/11 Commission leaders complained of false testimony and withholding of evidence by the white house and other officials, but in the op-ed published in the Times today. they stated:
<i>"There could have been absolutely no doubt in the mind of anyone at the C.I.A. -- <h3>or the White House</h3> -- of the commission's interest in any and all information related to Qaeda detainees involved in the 9/11 plot. Yet no one in the administration ever told the commission of the existence of videotapes of detainee interrogations."</i>

Consider that they accused NORAD officials of false testimony, back in 2004, agreed to let the DOD and FAA investigate whether crimes were committed relating to that testimony, and that the Inspectors General in both agencies conducted white wash investigations, and that the DOD hid it's report for more than a year after it was completed, it saw the light of day only after a long ignored FOIA request was responded to, and that the promised second phase of the DOD report that was claimed to "exonerate" NORAD officials involved, was not released....it's 17 months since the DOD IG promised to release it "soon", and 41 months since the 9/11 Commissioners assigned the investigation to the DOD IG, instead of in a criminal complaint to the DOJ.

The 9/11 Commissioners also claimed, even though they had asked, that they were never told by anyone in the president's administration, of a July 10, 2001 briefing of then National Security Advisor, Condie Rice by George Tenet of, <i>"about an imminent Al Qaeda attack and failed to persuade her to take action."</i>

I posted much other info in the OP that indicates there was an intention to mislead the American people about what the president knew and when he knew it, with regard to the 9/11 attacks.

I seek one thing only, with this thread. <h3>A consensus of the members on whether, it is, or isn't REASONABLE to believe that the US leadership misled us about what happened on the morning of 9/11, and about what they knew in advance, and when they knew it.</h3>

Here's one more example that concerns me greatly:
President Meets with Displaced Workers in Florida Town Hall Meeting
Quote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...011204-17.html

"Q Hi, Mr. President. I want to say, they haven't won. I got in my car today, and I'm in the same building with you, speaking to you. They have not won.
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much.
Q And would you say hello to my son Jordan, and my daughter Patricia.
THE PRESIDENT: Jordan and who?
Q Patricia.
THE PRESIDENT: Hi, Patricia; how are you? How old is Patricia?
Q Five, and Jordan is in 3rd grade. And Jordan has a question, if I could
give him the microphone.
THE PRESIDENT: You bet. Your mother is relaying the Mike to you, Jordan.
Q One thing, Mr. President, is that you have no idea how much you've done for
this country. And another thing is that, how did you feel when you heard
about the terrorist attack? (Applause.)
THE PRESIDENT: Thank you, Jordan. Well, Jordan, you're not going to believe what state I was in when I heard about the terrorist attack. I was in Florida. And my Chief of Staff, Andy Card -- actually, I was in a classroom talking about a reading program that works. <b>I was sitting outside the classroom waiting to go in, and I saw an airplane hit the tower -- the TV was obviously on.</b> And I used to fly, myself, and I said, well, there's one terrible pilot. I said, it must have been a horrible accident. But I was whisked off there, I didn't have much time to think about it. <b>And I was sitting in the classroom, and Andy Card, my Chief of Staff, who is sitting over here, walked in and said, "A second plane has hit the tower, America is under attack."</b> And, Jordan, I wasn't sure what to think at first. You know, I grew up in a period of time where the idea of America being under attack never entered my mind -- just like your Daddy's and Mother's mind probably. And I started thinking hard in that very brief period of time about what it meant to be under attack. I knew that when I got all of the facts that we were under attack, there would be hell to pay for attacking America. (Applause.
<b>The POTUS does not [sit] outside the classroom "waiting to go in..."</b>, he does not "wait" for anyone....they wait for him. An especially odd statement, considering that "this" president is always first through the door; there is a recent news photo of him jumping ahead of Vincente Fox, and he tried to muscle his way ahead of Clinton, throught the doorway at the Clinton Presidential library, on the day of it's dedication.

There was no "TV" that "was obviously on", in the "hallway" that Bush was not "waiting in", and there was no broadcast, at the time that he stated, that televised what he told the child at the December, 2001 town meeting, the he, Bush, could have watched to see the airliner crash into WTC1....

....and a month later, Bush repeated this impossible to believe (IMO) "story":
Quote:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0020105-3.html
For Immediate Release
Office of the Press Secretary
<b>January 5, 2002

President Holds Town Hall Forum on Economy in California </b>

......THE PRESIDENT:......Go ahead and yell it out. If I don't like the question, I'll just change it. (Laughter.)

Q Mr. President, I'm a Navy chaplain, serving with the Marines in 29 Palms, California. I am also honored to have you as my Commander-in-Chief.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. (Applause.)

Q My question is very simple: How can we, as pastors, pray specifically for you and your family? (Applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: Well, first -- thank you. I have -- first of all, I believe in the power of prayer. (Applause.) And I have felt the prayers of the American people for me and my family. I have. And I want to thank all of you who have prayed. People say, well, how do you know? I say, well, I can just feel it. I can't describe it very well, but I feel comforted by the prayer.

I think the thing that -- the prayer that I would like America is to ask for is to pray for God's protection for our land and our people, to pray against -- that there's a shield of protection, so that if the evil ones try to hit us again, that we've done everything we can, physically, and that there is a spiritual shield that protects the country. (Applause.)

Do you have a question. Come on underneath. The man's got a question.

Q First of all, I'm very impressed in how you handled the situation on September 11th. (Applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: That's plenty. (Applause.) No. Thank you.

<b>Q What was the first thing that went through your head when you heard that a plane crashed into the first building?</b>

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida. I had gone down to tell my little brother what to do, and -- just kidding, Jeb. (Laughter.) And -- it's the mother in me. (Laughter.) Anyway, I was in the midst of learning about a reading program that works. I'm a big believer in basic education, and it starts with making sure every child learns to read. And therefore, we need to focus on the science of reading, not what may feel good or sound good when it comes to teaching children to read. (Applause.) I'm just getting a plug in for my reading initiative.

Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- <b>well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway,</b> I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."

And in the meantime, this teacher was going on about the curriculum, and I was thinking about what it meant for America to be under attack. It was an amazing thought. But I made up my mind that if America was under attack, we'd get them. (Applause.) I wasn't interested in lawyers, I wasn't interested in a bunch of debate. I was interested in finding out who did it and bringing them to justice. I also knew that they would try to hide, and anybody who provided haven, help, food, would be held accountable by the United States of America. (Applause.)

Anyway, it was an interesting day.......
He told the same bullshit account, twice to the public. It could not have happened the way he said it did....he was specific in his details, and he told the same story about "watching TV while waiting to go into the classroom", not once, but twice. It's still on the white house website, it contradicts relevant details if a major historic event....the seminal event of the man's presidency.

The effect of all of this, and today's op-ed by the chairman and co-chairman of the 9/11 Commission are just more of a long sequence of anecdotes, is to raise reaonable doubts that could be erased with frank communication to us, "the people", but there has been a total refusal to do so, even to members of the 9/11 Commission, itself.

Couple all of this with the question, "what have they been right about"?...In all of their military and security responses to the 9/11 attacks?

They should be "trying harder" to restore and maintain their own credibility, with us. They're not. Some of us demand that they attempt to do so, and some are continued defenders, apologists, "explainers". of the inexplicable.

Go figure.....

Last edited by host; 01-02-2008 at 06:35 PM..
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