Originally Posted by pan6467

..... I don't belittle, challenge intelligences and try very hard to keep from personalizing or personal attacking...... which the "elite" love to focus their replies doing.

....I don't want to have to prove anything, I don't want to have to write or read a ten page research paper on why I believe a political view and belief is right and everyone else's is wrong.

I..... looked only for info that suited my purpose so wasn't all that informed on the "other side" and when the other side did try to show me, I didn't want to listen because I had "all this proof". In the end all that ever came out was bad feelings on both sides because neither side gave the other a chance to be heard and personal attacks ensued. ....

....Yet, the "elite" here refuse to let go of the control they have over this forum.

..... I was tired of every post being taken over, turned around and taken in a direction that had nothing to do with the OP. But the "elite" were able to get away with it because they just belittled people and chased them away.

BUT the straw that has broken my back, the straw that I won't let go of and will use to point to how if TFP truly wants to keep good people and be interesting, have a growing and fruitful political forum and not be just another titty board will be the Christmas to the troops thread started by Deltona Couple.

This is EXTREMELY personal now. You see I was in the military.... unlike most of those who tried so hard to turn it into a political anti war thread or get it shut down (and succeeded)...... I remember what being away from home was like on Christmas. Hell, I went to bootcamp 12/24/88. I wasn't in a war zone but I spent the Christmases I was in away and I would have and did love to hear and see strangers wishing me a Merry Christmas while I served. It helped me keep my spirits up.

So Deltona Couple made an innocent thread and stated put down you partisan arms, your political hatreds for just 1 GODDAMNED thread and take the time to wish the troops a Merry Christmas.

And it seemed he no sooner posted it than the Anti-War comments and essays had to come out.

It could have been moved to General Discussion and made non political but the powers that be kept it here and allowed it to become basically an anti-war thread. In the end all that became of that was people too self righteous shouting anti-war slurs and attacking those who pointed out that was inappropriate.

Now who lost?

Not the people who believe in the war. THE INNOCENT MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM and the casual observer who saw that TFP can't even have a post to wish the men and women in the military a heartfelt Merry Christmas.

It's sad to believe but probably true that the vast majority of those posters who could not wish the military a true heartfelt Merry Christmas and turned that thread into a political grandstand, were wishing strangers at the stores they shopped at, people walking down the street and at work a Merry Christmas.

Now, those casual observers, those thinking about posting new threads with new ideas and thinking about becoming members are probably looking at that thread scratching their head, seeing all this hate and anger and wondering if they want to contribute anything..... doubtful. They'll just go to the titty board, look at Halx's hat, have a little nonsense fun and go elsewhere for better more civil and respectful political discussion.

And as far as any military supporters, active members, family members or veterans.... we've probably pissed them off to where they'll just go elsewhere period and we may lose what they have to share forever.

Hey it's ok, we had another anti-war thread and showed them war mongers. We proved we were right. We proved we were better informed, more educated and sanctimonious.... didn't we?

But then again what do I know? I just wrote a heartfelt passionate essay on what I believe is wrong here and in the end I'll get..... "Don't like it leave".... "you're personally attacking me"....... "you talk about self righteousness and look at yourself".... etc.

"you talk about self righteousness and look at yourself".... that's the one there, I probably do fall into that.... no probably about it. I do. But I also cannot keep quiet and allow a great forum to die in disgrace because certain people wish to control the direction of every thread.... wish to degrade and belittle people into leaving.... and destroy this place further.