A few questions, comments and observations.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
George st Pierre was a nightclub bouncer
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Do you not think that boxers also look for work as bouncers before they "make it to the show"? Of course they do.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
my point is, to get back to it:
1 - MMA is overly violent and dangerous
2 - The rules of MMA promote a style of fighting which is classless, unattractive and unmanly
3 - Most of the top MMA stars I have looked into are average fighters without high skill levels.
4 - MMA fighting is in my opinion mostly boring (as they grappled around on the floor) and occasionally horrific (when a fallen man is beaten by his opponent)
5 - MMA fights are unpredictable, because the very open structure of the rules acts as a leveller between the good and the ordinary.
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1-No more so than boxing, someone competing in MMA takes far less blows to the head.
2-The rules for MMA are not unified. However, it is still a sport that is evolving. The UFC is hardly classless (see Matt Hughes reaction to his loss to George St. Pierre), and unattractive and unmanly is subjective.
3-Uneducated B.S.
4-That's your opinion and you are entitled to it, however many think this is wrong.
5-Because clearly there have never been upsets or shocking outcomes in boxing.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
I will tell you one thing.
IF I was an MMA fighter, and I put my man down... I would allow him the opportunity to get to his feet before continuing to fight.
I guarantee that I would act in this way.
Win or lose, I would show that an Englishman at least is still capable of behaving as a true gentleman, with courage and fairness.
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So you want MMA and the Mixed Martial Artists that compete in it to be different sport. Surely those Basketball players should only kick the ball like a good soccer player does. After all they are clearly the same thing since both use balls and nets.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
To be quite open, boxing does require skill, courage, and a certain nobility.
Anyone can wrestle.
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I agree that boxing requires skill, the nobility of boxing is long gone.
As far as your comment about wrestling. Sure anyone can wrestle, however to wrestle well it takes time and training. Anyone can put on gloves, learn the rules, step in to a ring and box. That doesn't mean they will be a good boxer.
*Edit* I assumed that you are talking about amateur wrestling the sport not pro wrestling ala WWE. If you were talking about WWE style pro wrestling, then I disagree that ANYONE can wrestle as it still requires a degree of training and physical prowess however it also isn't a sport. It's entertainment and yes almost anyone who is of average physical ability could learn the basics of pro wrestling.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
I can tell you, I read on wikipedia about one MAJOR fight in "Pride MMA" which was won by "soccer kicks to the head" of a fallen man. Is this what people call entertainment? I for one am proud that this kind of sport will never take off in England.
Disgraceful.
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Pride is dead, bought by the UFC. The UFC does not allow "soccer kicks to the head".
As far as the sport not taking off in England...
UFC 70: Nations Collide
Date: April 21, 2007
Venue: Manchester Evening News Arena
City: Manchester, England
Attendance: 15,114 (12,708 paid)
Total Gate: $2,628,472 (£1.3 million GBP)
UFC 75: Champion vs. Champion
Date: September 8, 2007
Venue: The O2
City: London, England
Attendance: 16,235
Total Gate: $2.7 million
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
I do not have some fetish about people only being allowed to fight while upright, the point is that the core of MMA, the part that the element which thinks boxing is "not xtreme enough" adores, is when a man is knocked down and then pounded when he is vulnerable and unable to defend himself.
THIS is unmanly, this is an act of pure cowardice. I seem to have to keep repeating myself because some people dont seem to grasp what to me seems a quite simple principle. A sport that allows a man to be struck when he is down, when he is unable to defend himself - is overly brutal and unmanly.
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You assume that a man on his back can not defend himself and this is incorrect. If a fighter is simply knocked down or taken down he is hardly defenseless. Some are far more dangerous on their back with their ability to submit than they are standing up striking but you seem to be unable to understand this. IF the fighter is unable to defend himself ,ie he is too dazed to defend because of a shot to the head, the fight is stopped.
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Originally Posted by Strange Famous
Anyone who is skilled in combat (as a top UFC brawler must be) would have the opportunity to box, to fight in the supreme test of masculinity under the Queensbury Rules. To fight in a sport that does not allow an attack on a defenceless opponent.
Instead, he chooses to fight in UFC and punch a man in the head when he is down on the floor and not able to defend himself or even see the blow coming. Maybe his motive that he is not really skilled enough to be a boxing champion, but he is a good wrestler so he can make more money in UFC... its his choice, and he has to live with the reflection it casts on his character.
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Again, you assume that the man who is down is always defenseless. This is incorrect. Also most Mixed Martial Artists (or UFC "Brawlers" as you call them) have had some boxing training. However many of them do not use striking with fists as their primary focus many use grappling or kicks (while both are standing btw). Wrestling, boxing, and other Martial Arts all have a place in MMA.
Example - George St. Pierre.
Height 5 ft 10.5 in (1.79 m)
Weight 170 lb (77 kg)
Born May 19, 1981
Mixed martial arts record
Wins 15
By knockout - 5
By submission - 6
Losses 2
Trained in Kyokushin (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyokushin), Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Muay Thai, Wrestling (BTW he trains with the Canadian national team) and Boxing. Yes boxing has it's place in MMA however it's only one part of the training. Notice that GSP has KO'ed his opponent in 1/3 of his wins, and made them submit almost the same. As far as two losses one was against the then champion Matt Hughes who was GSP's idol and GSP has admitted he was starstruck and not ready to fight Hughes. His other was against a guy he didn't take seriously and as well as some personal issues that put him in a very bad head space. Since that loss he has looked dominant.
So why would he choose MMA over boxing? Well for one he has been training in martial arts since childhood not boxing. How would he do in boxing? If he dedicated himself to just boxing, probably quite well but would he be the best in his weight class? I don't know. Why? Because he has been training for something else for most of his life.
If GSP stepped into a boxing ring in 6 months would he be able defeat the champ of whatever weight class 170 lbs would put him in? Probably not because said champ has dedicated himself to Boxing whereas GSP uses boxing as one of his tools but not as the only one (nor even his primary).
If the same boxing champ stepped into the octagon against GSP it would be exactly the opposite with the boxing champ being outclassed in an environment he hasn't dedicated himself to.