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Old 12-11-2007, 10:27 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceventura3
I believe it was in June when Democratic leaders in Congress sent Bush a letter saying that the "surge" had failed to produce the intended results. the intent of the "surge" was to curb the violence to give the Iraqi people a real opportunity to establish a strong central government. The "surge" was a needed step in a process. The US needed to show the Iraqi people and other government and people in the region a strong commitment to help fix a problem we contributed to creating.

If we had followed the desires of Democratic leaders, I truly believe the conditions in Iraq would be worse today with the entire region closer to being in total chaos. Given, the circumstances at the time, cutting and running would have been the worst thing to do. Bush deserves credit for listening to his military leaders and his desire to bring stability to Iraq rather than cutting and running.

It is true that the Iraqi government is still struggling and the majority of the Iraqi people support a timetable for US withdrawal. However, given the "surge", when we do leave we will leave a country better prepared than if we followed the "cut and run" strategy.

I presented this originally as a rhetorical question because I did not believe those who strongly dislike Bush could possibly give him credit for anything positive developing in Iraq.
ace, I can document convincingly that it is reasonable to believe that little or nothing has been accomplished in Iraq since the announcement of "the surge", to the extent that it would enhance accomplishing the goals set by the Bush administration for completing "the mission" in Iraq.

Instead, the goals themselves have been reduced. We've lost nearly a thousand more troops since the Baker Hamilton ISG report was made public 55 weeks ago. Our military is weaker and even more bogged down, and we've spent a shitload more money, with even...an undefined, and unforecast addtional amount, to be borrowed and spent on this military and foreign policy disaster, in the future.

And, it is extremely doubtful that the US military is even "bogged down" in the right place:
Quote:
http://web.archive.org/web/200707181...97,print.story
<br>Saudis' role in Iraq insurgency outlined Sunni extremists from Saudi Arabia make up half the foreign fighters in Iraq, many suicide bombers, a U.S. official says.
By Ned Parker
Times Staff Writer

July 15, 2007

BAGHDAD — Although Bush administration officials have frequently lashed out at Syria and Iran, accusing it of helping insurgents and militias here, the largest number of foreign fighters and suicide bombers in Iraq come from a third neighbor, Saudi Arabia, according to a senior U.S. military officer and Iraqi lawmakers.

<h3>About 45% of all foreign militants targeting U.S. troops and Iraqi civilians and security forces are from Saudi Arabia</h3>; 15% are from Syria and Lebanon; and 10% are from North Africa, according to official U.S. military figures made available to The Times by the senior officer. Nearly half of the 135 foreigners in U.S. detention facilities in Iraq are Saudis, he said.....
Quote:
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/...s-release.html
Brian Ross and Rehab El-Buri Report:

Saudisrelease_mn Saudi Arabia has released 1,500 prisoners suspected of belonging to a radical Islamic group after the prisoners underwent what was described as a five-week counseling program, according to Middle Eastern newspapers.

Critics of the prisoner reform program worry it does nothing to seriously combat Islamic radicalism and releases dangerous extremists back into society.

"This is the sort of failure to recognize the threat and deal with it seriously that has characterized the Saudis for years," said former White House counterterrorism chief Richard Clarke, an ABC News consultant.

Click Here for Full Blotter Coverage.

The released prisoners are described as followers of the rigid Takfir ideology and considered by many U.S. intelligence officials to be prime recruiting material for al Qaeda groups.

According to a Saudi newspaper, the Takfir group calls for establishing an Islamic state, kicking non-Muslims out of the Arabian Peninsula and considers other Muslim leaders, scholars and the general Muslim public disbelievers.

The Saudi newspaper, Al-Watan, publicized the massive prisoner release on Sunday, saying the Saudi Ministry of Interior spearheaded the effort in 2005 by holding 5,000 meetings with about 3,200 suspected Takfir members. The New York Sun first reported the development in the United States.

The Saudi Embassy and Ministry of Interior did not respond to repeated attempts for comment.

The committee charged with reforming Takfir suspects told Al-Watan it uses 100 Islamic law specialists and 30 social and psychological experts to counsel the prisoners. After the suspects met in groups of 20 for five weeks and completed an exam, the committee awarded the prisoners certificates -- and their freedom.
<h3>Can you imagine, ace, if the greatest proportion of captured foreign fighters in Iraq, had come from Iran, instead of from Saudi Arabia, or if the Iranian government chose to release "1,500 prisoners suspected of belonging to a radical Islamic group",..... "After the suspects met in groups of 20 for five weeks and completed an exam"? Do you think "the news" would be relegated to a network news anchor's blog, or would the white house be "shoutin' it", from the effing mountaintops?</h3>

This is a disaster, ace, and the history of it will be written that way. No IDB or WSJ editorial will be able to smear enough lipstick on this pig for the rest of us to embrace what you are perceiving:


<h3>ace, on page 25 of the Iraq Study Group Report, linked below, here is the key phrase that you and president Bush...ignored, overlooked, minimized... whatever you did in reaction to it:</h3>
Quote:
....Because none of the operations conducted by U.S. and
Iraqi military forces are fundamentally changing the con-
ditions encouraging the sectarian violence, U.S. forces
seem to be caught in a mission that has no foreseeable end...
Quote:
November 10, 2006

Former U.S. Secretary of State Lawrence S. Eagleburger has replaced former CIA Director Robert M. Gates as a member of the Iraq Study Group, study group co-chairmen James A. Baker, III and Lee H. Hamilton said Friday....

<a href="http://www.usip.org/isg/news_releases/1110_isg_eagleburger.html">Eagleburger served</a> as the 62nd U.S. Secretary of State under President George H.W. Bush. A career diplomat, Eagleburger held numerous high-ranking positions in the presidential administrations of both Republicans and Democrats....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...120601903.html
In Theater of War, It's Iraq Study Group's Turn to Take the Stage

By Dana Milbank
Thursday, December 7, 2006; Page A02

....asked why their views should carry weight, Baker looked down the row of commissioners with a smile and a wink. He took out some lip balm and applied it, then smiled some more. "This report by this bunch of has-beens up here is the only bipartisan report that's out there," he finally shot back.

Whatever else the "has-beens" accomplished, they made sure that any credibility questions will be directed not at them but at Bush. Hamilton lectured: "You cannot look at this area of the world and pick and choose among the countries that you're going to deal with." Leon Panetta counseled Bush to "look at the realities of what's taking place." <h3>Eagleburger said after the event that when the group met with Bush, "I don't recall, seriously, that he asked any questions."...</h3>

Quote:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...toryId=6587217

--- "We do not recommend a stay-the-course solution; in our opinion, that approach is no longer viable." - James A. Baker III, co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group

--- "The current approach is not working. And the ability of the United States to influence events is diminishing… Many Americans are understandably dissatisfied. Our ship of state has hit rough waters. It must now chart a new way forward." - Lee Hamilton, co-chairman of the Iraq Study Group.

--- "The report is an acknowledgment that there will be no military solution in Iraq. It will require a political solution arrived at through sustained Iraqi and region-wide diplomacy and engagement." - Sen. Chuck Hagel, R-Neb....

Quote:
http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache...lnk&cd=6&gl=us

The Iraq Study Group Report

Letter from the Co-Chairs

....Our political leaders must build a bipartisan approach to
bring a responsible conclusion to what is now a lengthy and
costly war. Our country deserves a debate that prizes substance
over rhetoric, and a policy that is adequately funded and sus-
tainable. The President and Congress must work together. Our
leaders must be candid and forthright with the American peo-
ple in order to win their support.......

Page 14

Executive Summary

....The Iraqi people have a democratically elected government, yet
it is not adequately advancing national reconciliation, providing
basic security, or delivering essential services. Pessimism is per-
vasive......

Page 16

.....The Iraqi government should accelerate assuming re-
sponsibility for Iraqi security by increasing the number and
quality of Iraqi Army brigades. While this process is under way,
and to facilitate it, the United States should significantly in-
crease the number of U.S. military personnel, including com-
bat troops, imbedded in and supporting Iraqi Army units. As
these actions proceed, U.S. combat forces could begin to move
out of Iraq.
The primary mission of U.S. forces in Iraq should evolve
to one of supporting the Iraqi army, which would take over pri-
mary responsibility for combat operations. By the first quarter
of 2008, subject to unexpected developments in the security
situation on the ground, all combat brigades not necessary for
force protection could be out of Iraq. ......

....It is clear that the Iraqi government will need assistance
from the United States for some time to come, especially in
carrying out security responsibilities. Yet the United States
must make it clear to the Iraqi government that the United
States could carry out its plans, including planned redeploy-
ments, even if the Iraqi government did not implement their
planned changes. The United States must not make an open-
ended commitment to keep large numbers of American troops
deployed in Iraq....

.....The United States should work closely with Iraq’s leaders
to support the achievement of specific objectives—or mile-
stones—on national reconciliation, security, and governance.
Miracles cannot be expected, but the people of Iraq have the
right to expect action and progress. The Iraqi government
needs to show its own citizens—and the citizens of the United
States and other countries—that it deserves continued support.....

....If the Iraqi government demonstrates political will and
makes substantial progress toward the achievement of mile-
stones on national reconciliation, security, and governance, the
United States should make clear its willingness to continue
training, assistance, and support for Iraq’s security forces and to
continue political, military, and economic support. If the Iraqi
government does not make substantial progress toward the
achievement of milestones on national reconciliation, security,
and governance, the United States should reduce its political,
military, or economic support for the Iraqi government.....


Page 25

....Many military units are under significant strain. Because
the harsh conditions in Iraq are wearing out equipment more
quickly than anticipated, many units do not have fully func-
tional equipment for training when they redeploy to the United
States. An extraordinary amount of sacrifice has been asked of
our men and women in uniform, and of their families. The
American military has little reserve force to call on if it needs
ground forces to respond to other crises around the world......

Page 95

Restoring the U.S. Military
We recognize that there are other results of the war in Iraq that
have great consequence for our nation. One consequence has
been the stress and uncertainty imposed on our military—the
most professional and proficient military in history. The United
States will need its military to protect U.S. security regardless
of what happens in Iraq. We therefore considered how to limit
the adverse consequences of the strain imposed on our military
by the Iraq war.
U.S. military forces, especially our ground forces, have
been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the repeated de-
ployments in Iraq, with attendant casualties (almost 3,000 dead
and more than 21,000 wounded), greater difficulty in recruit-
ing, and accelerated wear on equipment.
Additionally, the defense budget as a whole is in danger of
disarray, as supplemental funding winds down and reset costs
become clear. It will be a major challenge to meet ongoing re-
quirements for other current and future security threats that
need to be accommodated together with spending for opera-
tions and maintenance, reset, personnel, and benefits for active
duty and retired personnel. Restoring the capability of our mil-
itary forces should be a high priority for the United States at
this time.
The U.S. military has a long tradition of strong partner-
ship between the civilian leadership of the Department of De-
fense and the uniformed services. Both have long benefited
from a relationship in which the civilian leadership exercises
control with the advantage of fully candid professional advice,

76

and the military serves loyally with the understanding that its
advice has been heard and valued. That tradition has frayed,
and civil-military relations need to be repaired....

Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=1&cset=true
Iraq calmer, but more divided

The U.S. troop buildup has brought down violence, but that has failed to spark cooperation among politicians. If anything, the country appears more balkanized into ethnic and sectarian enclaves.
By Ned Parker, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer
December 10, 2007
Quote:
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=4&cset=true
Iraq's bid to pass bills dead for year
Parliament suspends its session
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/26/wo...st/26iraq.html
Pressure for Results: The Politics of Tallying the Number of Iraqis Who Return Home

By DAMIEN CAVE
Published: November 26, 2007

....By all accounts, Iraqi families who fled their homes in the past two years are returning to Baghdad.

The description of the scope of the return, however, appears to have been massaged by politics. Returnees have essentially become a currency of progress.

Under intense pressure to show results after months of political stalemate, the government has continued to publicize figures that exaggerate the movement back to Iraq and Iraqis’ confidence that the current lull in violence can be sustained.

On Nov. 7, Brig. Gen. Qassim al-Moussawi, the Iraqi spokesman for the American-Iraqi effort to pacify Baghdad, said that 46,030 people returned to Iraq from abroad in October because of the “improving security situation.”

Last week, Iraq’s minister of displacement and migration, Abdul-Samad Rahman Sultan, announced that 1,600 Iraqis were returning every day, which works out to a similar, or perhaps slightly larger, monthly total.

But in interviews, officials from the ministry acknowledged that the count covered all Iraqis crossing the border, not just returnees. “We didn’t ask them if they were displaced and neither did the Interior Ministry,” said Sattar Nowruz, a spokesman for the Ministry of Displacement and Migration.

As a result, the tally included Iraqi employees of The New York Times who had visited relatives in Syria but were not among the roughly two million Iraqis who have fled the country....

.....Some Iraqi lawmakers said that overly broad figures were being used intentionally.

“They are using this number because they want to show that Maliki is succeeding,” said Salim Abdullah, a lawmaker and member of the largest Sunni bloc, known as the Accordance Front, referring to Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki. “But this does not make the number correct. I think dozens of Iraqis return home daily, but not 1,600.”

A half-dozen owners of Iraqi travel agencies and drivers who regularly travel to Syria agreed that the numbers misrepresented reality.

They said that the flow of returnees peaked last month, with more than 50 families arriving daily from Syria at Baghdad’s main drop-off point. Since Nov. 1, they said, the numbers have declined, and on Sunday morning, during a period when several buses used to appear, only one came.....

.....A United Nations survey released last week, of 110 Iraqi families leaving Syria, also seemed to dispute the contentions of officials in Iraq that people are returning primarily because they feel safer.

The survey found that 46 percent were leaving because they could not afford to stay; 25 percent said they fell victim to a stricter Syrian visa policy; and only 14 percent said they were returning because they had heard about improved security.

Underscoring a widely held sense of hesitation, many of those who come back to Iraq do not return to their homes. Clambering off the bus on Sunday, a woman who gave her name as Um Dima, mother of Dima, said that friends were still warning her not to go back to her house in Dora, a violent neighborhood in south Baghdad. So for now, she said, she will move in with her parents in southern Iraq.

Raad al-Kihani, a prominent Shiite tribal leader in Baghdad and supporter of the prime minister, said that most people returning were still restricted by the fear of sectarian violence. “There are no Shiite families moving back to Sunni neighborhoods and no Sunnis moving back to Shiite neighborhoods,” he said.

The Iraqi government is using incentives and aggressive public relations to try to bring more people home. Iraqi officials plan to pay for buses to transport Iraqis from Syria. Prominent government figures recently visited Saab al-Bor, a largely abandoned town near Baghdad, to emphasize that families should feel safe enough to return.

The Displacement Ministry offers 1 million Iraqi dinar, about $800, to internally displaced families who can prove they have returned home with a letter from the police and their neighborhood council. But the movement has been limited. As of Thursday, 4,358 internally displaced families, about 25,000 people, had returned to their homes in Baghdad, the ministry’s registry of payments to returnees said.

Furthermore, people are still leaving their homes — 28,017 were internally displaced in October, according to the latest United Nations figures. In all, the United Nations estimates that 2.4 million Iraqis are still internally displaced, with many occupying someone else’s home.

Greater numbers will not return to their neighborhoods, some Iraqi lawmakers and independent migration specialists say, until a clear legal framework has been established to help them get their houses back without evicting other displaced families.

“The actions are slow and so many things needs to be done, said Ayaed al-Sammaraie, a member of Parliament and a leader of its largest Sunni Arab bloc. “The main thing people would like is to return to their spots, and it seems there isn’t a plan for that.”
Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/25/wa.../25policy.html
U.S. Scales Back Political Goals for Iraqi Unity

By STEVEN LEE MYERS and ALISSA J. RUBIN
Published: November 25, 2007

WASHINGTON, Nov. 24 — With American military successes outpacing political gains in Iraq, the Bush administration has lowered its expectation of quickly achieving major steps toward unifying the country, including passage of a long-stymied plan to share oil revenues and holding regional elections....

....There have been signs that American influence over Iraqi politics is dwindling after the recent improvements in security — which remain incomplete, as shown by a deadly bombing Friday in Baghdad. While Bush officials once said they aimed to secure “reconciliation” among Iraq’s deeply divided religious, ethnic and sectarian groups, some officials now refer to their goal as “accommodation.”...
Quote:
http://www.projo.com/news/johnmullig...5.2a7fd57.html
Army at the breaking point

01:00 AM EST on Monday, December 3, 2007

By John E. Mulligan

WASHINGTON — When a Navy admiral took over as the nation’s top uniformed leader this fall, he homed in on the military establishment’s fears for the future of the Army by touring several forts in the heartland and listening to the concerns of young infantry, artillery and recruiting officers.

After 12 months fighting in Iraq or Afghanistan, 12 months back home before redeployment is “just not good enough,” one Army captain at Fort Sill, Okla., told Adm. Michael G. Mullen, enunciating one of the many problems that add up to major worries about an all-volunteer force that is in its seventh year of wartime stress.

“The ground forces are not broken,” Mullen said in October in one of his first public appearances as the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, “but they are breakable.”

Mullen’s pronouncement echoes a rising refrain in Congress and the Pentagon that the modern, all-volunteer Army is undergoing the hardest test in its 34-year history. More than the next phase in the struggle for a stable Iraq is riding, therefore, on President Bush’s reduction of troop levels following the surge of 2007. The Army’s prospects for an early recovery from years of continuous combat are also at
issue.   click to show 
...and, ace...after more of our troops die avoidable deaths in this senseless Iraqi civil war, and we spend huge amounts of more borrowed money on it, all as nearly helpless and uninfluential "bystanders" in a failed state this US administration's policies created...Iraq was the most secular Arab country in the world with the greatest opportunities afforded to it's women, before the US invasion....and "islamofascism" continues to grow under the politically expedient neglect of our two allies...the dictatorships in Saudia Arabia and in Pakistan, can you see a day coming where you have to admit that your stance, and similar stances of others who share your opinions, were part of the problem, all your good intentions, aside?

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