Hain

@ filtherton:

Yeah we ought to start a club - we'll even have jackets!

SO I can't use observations, because the accuracy and validity of the observations comes into question. I can't use models because a model isn't fact, which I understand. I can't use statistics because that is just another model... So all I am really left with is a bunch of "hallucinations" I have "faith" in?

I honestly can see your reasoning. I think it is wrong though and I haven't a clue how to put it. Let me just refer to any experience as a hallucination. "Why I do not see my trust in hallucinations as faith" - I can turn to my make-believe models that are based on these hallucinations and predict how the next hallucination will occur given a specific set of hallucinated conditions. In fact, others can turn to my hallucinated models and predict their hallucinations situated with similar hallucinated conditions as well. As far as I know, there is nothing to be done like that with God. Well you can hallucinate God... I don't... but I guess you could. Please no one attack this, it is sarcastic.

I [think that I] understand your position... but I do not make your conclusion between faith in God and my trust in perceived physical experience.

Off Topic: Also I still think with what I know about science, if I throw an apple down some stable wormhole to the next universe were geometry is bent to hell, up is sideways, two dimensions of time, one of the universal forces is "screel", and only god would know what else... I think the apple won't last long to make applejuice. If I could demonstrate it, you know I would, and spend the rest of my days dropping apples into oblivion.

. . . . .

@ Ays:Throughout our experience this is the only thing we have known: if something appears designed, then that thing was most likely created by someone. Just like a hammer, maybe not made by a man, but the machines that made it were crafted by engineers. When looking at the universe, we apply that experience that seeming crafted things were created by someone.

Those words, "God has a plan for me," just don't seem to help as we can't even help each other. I help my friends, I help strangers, and the same happens to me. I think we ought to find our purpose with each other. When we can do that in peace and harmony, then we ought to worry about God. I'll put my faith in each other and wish the best because I can't keep listening to the silence, I can't keep reading the same Book.

. . . . . EDIT:
Bingo. Any ideas on what the jackets should look like?

@ Sprocket:
Trust me, it blows my mind thinking about this stuff, how well the universe is laid out. It points me towards something, and I will spend the rest of my life searching for that something.

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