Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - children: the last frontier of sexual perversion

roachboy · 11-29-2007, 03:40 PM

seems to me that you have a number of different questions crunched into each other hal.

speaking like the tiresome historian that i sometimes can be...

a) the cultural construction of children--so the image of them--particular to, say, the states (particular to particular social classes within the states)--what it is, where is came from, why it is.

this ideal-child thing is pretty recent. it probably comes about along with the rise of the bourgeoisie (middle class in the states and uk--not quite the same) across the 19th century---differentially in different contexts (with the british and americans probably leading the way, as they seem all to willing to do in matters that involve running away from sexuality)---the bourgeoisie/middle class was (still is, really) kinda obsessed with distancing itself from what was around it spatially, culturally/intellectually, etc. so it's probably linked to the construction of the notion of the private sphere, private life--publicness/openness about sex/sexuality was something imputed to the poor/working class, and so at some level the enclosure of sex within the private sphere, and the separation of children from sexuality is a function of broader processes of class differentiation.

these sorts of things are gradual, so it's not like one fine day in 1853 everything changed.

there's a good history of this in philippe ariès "history of childhood" if you're interested...

b) notions concerning sexual activity in/amongst children---it seems historically a subset of the above--and it's also very specifically a euro-american thing. folk like to think that the fact that it is euro-americans who are horrified by this is an index of their moral superiority, but another way of seeing it is as an index of just how strange and particular this euro-american "morality" is.

anyway, this too is a historical process, another gradual one, linked to the above but not exactly identical with it. if you're interested, you probably could treat the development of those strange doll-like outfits that turn up in 19th century photographs as an index.

c) the development of the notion of pedaophilia is separate, it seems to me.
this i know less about, but i suspect it's more recent still than the other two. it seems pretty clear that the hysteria about the idea of it is real recent, an aspect of this curious floating paranoia that i, for whatever reason, link to shows like "america's most wanted" and those milk cartons with pictures of kidnapped kids on them---they're not only about the acts themselves, but also about a sense of being-threatened, being-under-seige. it's been a pretty useful paranoia for conservatives, frankly.

d) the linkage of pedophilia to rape around the notion of consent seems to me a legal thing, but i know almost nothing about how it came about.

o yeah--the general argument in the op reminds me somehow of jg ballard's argument in one of his more recent novels that goes something like "in a society characterizes by a smothering love and acceptance, fascism is the last pornography..."

11-29-2007, 03:40 PM	#8 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	seems to me that you have a number of different questions crunched into each other hal. speaking like the tiresome historian that i sometimes can be... a) the cultural construction of children--so the image of them--particular to, say, the states (particular to particular social classes within the states)--what it is, where is came from, why it is. this ideal-child thing is pretty recent. it probably comes about along with the rise of the bourgeoisie (middle class in the states and uk--not quite the same) across the 19th century---differentially in different contexts (with the british and americans probably leading the way, as they seem all to willing to do in matters that involve running away from sexuality)---the bourgeoisie/middle class was (still is, really) kinda obsessed with distancing itself from what was around it spatially, culturally/intellectually, etc. so it's probably linked to the construction of the notion of the private sphere, private life--publicness/openness about sex/sexuality was something imputed to the poor/working class, and so at some level the enclosure of sex within the private sphere, and the separation of children from sexuality is a function of broader processes of class differentiation. these sorts of things are gradual, so it's not like one fine day in 1853 everything changed. there's a good history of this in philippe ariès "history of childhood" if you're interested... b) notions concerning sexual activity in/amongst children---it seems historically a subset of the above--and it's also very specifically a euro-american thing. folk like to think that the fact that it is euro-americans who are horrified by this is an index of their moral superiority, but another way of seeing it is as an index of just how strange and particular this euro-american "morality" is. anyway, this too is a historical process, another gradual one, linked to the above but not exactly identical with it. if you're interested, you probably could treat the development of those strange doll-like outfits that turn up in 19th century photographs as an index. c) the development of the notion of pedaophilia is separate, it seems to me. this i know less about, but i suspect it's more recent still than the other two. it seems pretty clear that the hysteria about the idea of it is real recent, an aspect of this curious floating paranoia that i, for whatever reason, link to shows like "america's most wanted" and those milk cartons with pictures of kidnapped kids on them---they're not only about the acts themselves, but also about a sense of being-threatened, being-under-seige. it's been a pretty useful paranoia for conservatives, frankly. d) the linkage of pedophilia to rape around the notion of consent seems to me a legal thing, but i know almost nothing about how it came about. o yeah--the general argument in the op reminds me somehow of jg ballard's argument in one of his more recent novels that goes something like "in a society characterizes by a smothering love and acceptance, fascism is the last pornography..." __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 11-29-2007 at 03:43 PM..