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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
State sponsored service may vary from state to state, but I have had enough experience in forensic behavioral health to have concluded this is unfortunately in the extreme minority.
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Ah, but if you compare the success rate of rehabilitation under psychiatric care to the success rate of rehabilitation in an electric chair, things become clear. The criminal justice system is about justice. Killing people because we don't necessarily think that they can be treated doesn't really make sense. Incarcerating them does, that way we can revisit it if it's deemed possible later (psychology is an evolving science, after all). I realize that in the case above, despite not having access to any specific information on the mental health of the presumed guilty parties, full rehabilitation isn't likely, but somehow I don't see murdering them as a constructive response by a rational populace.
So, to summarize, I agree rehabilitation isn't likely but that doesn't mean we should murder them.
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
What I have seen are allot of criminals who have done very bad things, and know how to work the system. The result is rapists and murderers that have been either found not competent enough to stand trial , or have been found guilty but, insane. Both will keep them out of prison. They spend 5 to 10 years receiving psych meds, having daily groups on how to get in touch with themselves, doing arts and crafts, and being rude and entitled to the medical staff.
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That's a serious failing of the psychiatric rehabilitation industry, and I recognize that, but again is this a worse option that murder? If someone is deemed to be "currently untreatable", why shouldn't they be shipped off to a prison for a time? I'll admit I'm not fully aware of procedure when it comes to this as my education was more about history and systems of the mind and such, but it would seem that if a trained professional deemed that a patient was hostile and actively avoiding rehabilitation, they should be sent to prison.
I'll bet John Watson wouldn't have let convicts be rude to his staff.
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
After they have spent enough time being “rehabilitated” can you guess what some of them do? They go out and kill or rape again.
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It's a massive failing in the system to release people who aren't rehabilitated (which is becoming the word of the day).
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
Perhaps in an utopian society people would not have to worry about their children disappearing, going to the store and have a sniper shoot them, being raped, and similar acts.
A couple decades ago when the level of forensics was only a fraction of where it is today, my view would be different. I don’t deny that there are truly mentally ill people out there. There are allot of Charles Mansions out there- that will never be rehabilitated.
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I'm not the only person with psychology training that believes that Manson isn't beyond rehabilitation, but that's beside the point. This is about viable solutions. Manson has life in prison, for example.
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
Maybe the answer is to get more specific about cases verse a general law. Scott Peterson: is there anyone here that doubts he killed his wife and unborn son? Circumstantial evidence convicted him. If a person is found guilty by a panel of their peers of a deliberate and heinous crime, I would personally rather my taxes go into education than supporting that piece of shit.
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The answer is prevention, and the fact you use "piece of shit" suggests emotional content in your decision making process when it comes to this. If you want to stop this, then the only option is prevention. Prison trains criminals instead of rehabilitating them. It's in prevention, programs like Second Step, that we could actually see crime rates drop off.
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
I don’t mean this question to be passive aggressive, and if this applies to anyone here and they choose not to answer I understand.. I’m asking this with a perspective of sincere interest . Is there anyone here that has had something terrible happen to someone they love by a criminal and does not support the death penalty?
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I was shot in the leg. My grandfather was exposed to agent orange. A close friend of the family had his leg blown off by an insurgent. Would I sentence any of the guilty parties to death? Absolutely not. The idiot who shot my leg was just an idiot. He served time and was released. McNamera and the rest of those responsible deserved to be in prison, but not killed. Bush is responsible for every injury and death in Iraq, and I'd like to sentence him to prison, but I'd absolutely never support the death penalty.