pan6467

Yes, I disagree that someone born into poverty can become rich. I think before there was a chance because we had thriving industries and manufacturing that allowed people to make money, save it and open bars, barber shops, etc around the factory they worked and would prosper.

Today, those jobs do not exist. Manufacturers hire temps, are cutting benefits and pay, and will move or close down in the bat of an eye.

College degrees use to mean something, not so much anymore.

Government is not helping, and yes, they must. They must open up programs that allow hands on training and apprenticeships.

College educations are becoming unaffordable very quickly. Tuitions are raising faster than inflation, student loans are now at 8.5%, (based on the market) and MOST graduates are not making enough to pay their loans so we are seeing higher than ever defaults, which affects future loans.

Cleaning this up is easy, government lowers the interest rates, has maximum tuitions for government funded schools and gives deferments and help to those who are working in fields that will never pay enough to pay off the loan and allow those people to live a decent life (i.e. social services, teachers in inner cities, etc).

Yes, college is worth every penny and that's why I am going. But I also know I'll have a mortgage for a student loan and I may never make enough to pay it and live a middle class life. Yet, after all is said and done I'll have a Master's Degree. That's pathetic. If one invests the time and effort to get a Master's Degree and is willing to work in inner cities helping people, that person should make a decent wage. Otherwise, there is little incentive to do so.

And that is the problem, the youth today see little incentives to better themselves. Even nurse's are starting to make shit wages. Why go to college and have massive loans to payback when chances are you won't find a job to pay them back and live the life you wanted?

I can give a demonstration of the differences between the 70's and today, simply by using my dad, my mom and myself as examples.

My own dad grew up in poverty and became a very wealthy man because there were opportunities that are not available today. He was able to become a Civil Engineer/Land Surveyor with some college because companies he worked for were able to get help with programs that helped pay his salary..... he also was eligible for grants, scholarships and very low interest loans, plus tuition wasn't as high. My dad was able to work his ass off, became a very well respected national authority on waste management and did surveys on the weekends (tagging me along to help) and would take cash or some acreage.

My mom decided to go to nursing school when my sister was 3-4 and I was 8-9 years old. My parents were struggling but were moving up, mom was able to get loans for school at very low interest rates (due to government subsidies). She got her LPN and moved onto her RN, but by that time they didn't need loans, of course tuition was very minimal and she got her degree at a community college. My mom spent 10 years as a nurse in OB/GYN and then became a director of nursing at 2 nursing homes.

Those opportunities today do not exist.

Me, I want to go into addiction counseling, it's where my passion lies, helping others. Now, they have made new regulations that you have to basically go to school and take classes just to get the CDCA (Chemical Dependency Counselor's Assistant) certification. Ok, so I did that. From there every 2 years you have to file for renewal and have so many college credits added. So I have to go to college and pay money I am not making. Very few places hire CDCA's as basically it is a training position and the facility has to have the 12 core functions of the field, I was lucky enough to get one because a prof worked there, had some pull and liked what he saw in me. (I caught a break, but what of the many who don't?)

To move up, you have to take more classes, get an associate's and get 5000 hours work experience in order to be eligible to take a $500 written and oral exam. (Almost there.) (A bachelor's degree can get you out of 2000 of those hours.) That takes you to an LCDCII (Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor 2), which means you are a glorified CDCA with very few responsibilities more, but you have to get this in most places now, just to get a starter job in the field, again shit wages, won't pay enough for an apartment in a decent non crime riddled neighborhood and your student loans.)

From the LCDCII, you need to get a Bachelor's Degree in a behavioral science science, AND 4000 hours in the field, just to be eligible to take another $500 written/oral exam. (My next goal). But, you're an LCDCIII with a few more responsibilities, this is a nice one but the pay isn't much more if any and the companies really are pushing you to get the LICDC (Licensed Independant Chem. Dep. Coun.)

In order to get that, you MUST have a Master's Degree 2000 hours, PLUS 4000 hours supervisory, then you have another written, oral and NOW a new Supervisory Exam.... and those are BIG $$$$$ to take. Imagine failing and having to retake again.... quite a few do.

That's just a simple field. By the time I get my Master's Degree and take the tests for the LICDC I'll owe upwards of $150,000 in loans. How the Hell am I, a social worker (basically) going to pay those back?

Now, it's simple the Neocon way, I go into college get a degree in a field I hate but pays and get the money. In the process I burn out, go nuts, hate my job, myself and develop serious health problems from the stress. Only to see my job get shipped out because they can find cheaper middle management in India.

I worked in jobs my heart wasn't in.... that's why I'm 40, going to school and looking at a mortgage for a student loan repayment.

I like your optimism, there are some (very, very, few) who can move upward and most of them are in the right place at the right time.

I just truly do not see it happening, if anything I see more of the middle class shrinking into the lower classes.

My dad, as pointed out above is someone you describe here. I don't think his success should be taxed more, PROVIDED the taxes that he pays go to giving people behind him the same opportunities for a good, affordable education, allowing hands on training with subsidized pay and low interest loans.

My point is this, YOU HAVE TO REBUILD AND RENEW OR THE COUNTRY DIES. Today, we aren't rebuilding and renewing the next generation. We are telling them to get high end jobs and get high cost degrees with little to no incentive or help. And you need to allow a goal for workers to see a nice comfortable life after 40+ years of working their asses off.

As most of my dad's career has been in management in one form or another, I doubt he is eligible for Social Security. But if he were, I like the system now. Everyone has a yearly maximum, some will make it and the tax stops, some won't and they pay the whole year. But in the end when they retire, they get back some reward for their hard work and contributions to society.

Why work if your only incentive is to get out of debt, and unfortunately the vast majority are there. If you don't have a retirement to look forward to, a time where you can lay back and rest and collect some form of appreciation from the society you helped keep moving forward... then what is the purpose?

If you look around and see these people who worked their asses off and put blood, sweat, tears, missed times with their kids, and so on and saw them "reverse mortgaging" their houses to pay the property taxes and barely able to afford to live.... why are you going to want to work that hard? Most aren't, most are going to want all they can get today because they see what the future holds. It's man's nature.

You have to fix this or our nation is dead.

The Neocons want everyone to believe that anyone can be successful, it's just hard work and a positive attitude. That's bullshit. Life happens, people make mistakes, people find college isn't for them, etc. NOT EVERYONE CAN NOR WILL BE SUCCESSFUL FINANCIALLY. But we can do more to help those who want to be, instead of burdening them with high interest student loans, an economy in the shitter, our factories dying, social security being destroyed and a trade policy that makes no sense.... allow others to tax our exports out of competition but allow their imports a very minimal tax to come into our country?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"