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Originally Posted by Miss Mango
Yeah yeah yeah.
But where is it written that the world, the universe, etc., all must be explicable by logic, science, or even....at all?
Further, why does it need to be? Just for us? To give us meaning? As if were the most important things ever, in all of existence in the perception of some great maker? Because in my opinion, were probably not.
Even the most dedicated scientists and geniuses in all of humanity were people of faith - and knew that aside from logic and explanation, there were going to be things that defied all of that.
Im all for proving paranormal phenomenon. I really am. But Im also all for allowing the extraordinary to occur without immediately thinking its bogus.
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To say that science will be capable of explaining everything is tautological. The whole point of the scientific method is that by observing or testing something under controlled conditions, presumptions can be proven true or false. Any failure to explain something is based on an inability to measure the results.
Logic is. in the simplest terms, a system to determine whether a conclusion follows a set of presumptions.
Faith is the belief in something that cannot be proven or disproven.
From a scientific standpoint, if ESP is a real phenomenon, then a certain set of conditions will produce a certain result consistently under controlled circumstances. Under controlled circumstances, consistent results that indicate the presence of ESP have not been produced, therefore it is intellectually dishonest to claim that ESP is a real phenomenon.
Logically, it can be said that if ESP is a real spectrum of abilities, it follows that these abilities would produce observable, reproducible results (E implies R.) Because those claiming to have these abilities cannot produce results at a greater rate than the statistical average, it follows that ESP is not a real spectrum of abilities (~R implies ~E.)
ESP is not a matter of faith, because its proponents claim it to be real and observable, which is contradictory to the definition of faith.
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Originally Posted by Sun Tzu
Im not arguing anything, just inquiring for other opinions and thoughts. I was referencing luck in the sense a psychic being right by making a "lucky" guess. Or situations outside of palm readers that may have exsisted in anyones life where utilizing gathered memory and, critical thinking, and deductive reasoning were not factors; if you or perhaps anyone especially those that don't believe in ESP, feel they may have used (terms that are used interchangably) gut, instinct, hunch, etc. If the belief that these exsist only in the person's perception the believes in them, if luck happens if favorable outcomes occur consistently.
It seems that it has become the norm to address everyone in an almost confrontive tone here at TFP, but it wasnt my intention to across as that if that is how it sounded.
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I'd say that "lucky" people are the ones who are statistically ahead of the curve when it comes to repeated occurrences of things that are considered good rather than bad. It's not a very warm and happy outlook compared to most, but yes, I do believe that we are just a bunch of carbon-based organisms in a chaotic system and that any observable event was caused by a number of factors that could be reduced to mathematical equations with enough processing power and if it were possible to observe each fundamental particle's movement without altering its course.