Originally Posted by AVoiceOfReason

The instrument to measure my indifference to this has yet to be invented.

The Nobel committee on such blew all credibility when they gave a terrorist the award--Yassir Arafat. (Following up with the Great Appeaser Jimmy Carter did nothing for them, either.)

I'm no more interested in this than I am the Grammies or Academy Awards.

I am, however, amused that Gore is lauded in the same week a British Court said his propaganda film needs disclaimers due to inaccuracies.

Originally Posted by Ustwo

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Originally Posted by ngdawg

Pickins must have been slim this year....

Al Gore on a par with Nelson Mandela or Bishop Tutu or MLK?...pffftt
Granted, there are some on the winner's list that are less than stellar (Arafat, for ex), but...Al Gore?
At least now he can afford to buy his own hybrid jet.
Past winners:
http://www.nobelprizes.com/nobel/peace/peace.html

Originally Posted by host

Welcome to the forum, Intense1. I have been very curious as to why the majority of Tennessee voters have voted for republican candidates since 2000, and you seem like someone with a reasonable demeanor who I can pose this question to:

Given that the vote of Mr. Gore's "homestaters" in 2000, had the direct effect of costing him the presidency, what have you and your fellow voters who have voted for republican candidates, gained by the shift away from Mr. Gore, and the democrats. I know what you have lost:

1.)The prestige, recognition, and tourism that would have flowed into Tennessee, if Gore had been elected.

2.)The political influence, translated into a higher flow of federal funds into Tennessee, if Tennessee had voted for Gore.

3.)The planning, right about now, and then the completion of a Gore presidential library, in Tennessee, that, along with Gore's birthplace, and his residence, would stimulate worldwide interest, and tourist dollars, and jobs, in Tennessee, as it will, for a long time to come, in Clinton's Arkansas.

4.)A balanced federal budget, replaced by an addition to the federal treasury debt that will mushroom the debt from $5414 billion, in 2001, to at least $9000 billion by Sept. 30, 2009.

5.)Open government....it's gone....reversed from a trend towards justification of the classification of every federal government document, to a new paradigm that began in 2001.....instead free access to documents must be justified, release to the public of presidential documents was delayed in a 2001 executive order, to the point that the presidential libraries complained about the emptiness of their stacks. Documents that had been de-classified, were reclassified, much to the chagrin, and puzzlement of historians who already possessed them.

6.)The peace, and a reputation of the US as a country that was reluctant to ever go to war, and only did so when it was first attacked by another country. The US is now mired in an avoidable war in Iraq that disproportionally claims the lives and limbs of military personnel from less affluent, and more rural states....like Tennessee. The other loss is the opportunity cost of sinking money and a hopelessly flawed military strategy in Iraq, vs. the lost opportunity to lessen the amount of the federal treasury debt, or spend some of the money wasted in Iraq, on new schools, and infrastructure repair, in Tennessee and in other US states.

Good relations and the trust of many other nations' governments, and their citizenry, has also been lost because Iraq was invaded and occupied.

7.)The boundary between church and state....it has definitely been blurred since the 2000 election.

8.)The compact between the federal government and workers rights and workplace safety. The NLRB has been stacked, since 2001, with 5 appointees who comprise the entire board, who are pro-management, none come from a labor, or union organzing background. OSHA has, until the deaths of several miners last year, adopted a policy of lax enforcement and industry self inspection of workplace safety hazards and remedies.

9.)Strong federal Environmental protection iniatives, with a focus on improving air quality. The <a href="http://www.sptimes.com/2002/06/14/Business/EPA_eases_air_polluti.shtml">enforcement intiatives that resulted in TECO</a> in Tampa, Fl, dramatically cleaning up it's act.

10.)Bankruptcy protection for individuals. Did the tradeoff of legal protection from debt collection....the ability to make a clean start, after what reputable studies demonstrated is more often bankruptcy induced by illness, worth lowered interest on credit card borrowing, or increased profits to the banks that issue the credit cards, vs. the loss of the option, by Tennesseans, who "enjoy", on average, lower per capita income to begin with, after a financial setback caused by an illness, a fresh start with their debts erased?
Hasn't the only beneficiary of "the Bankruptcy Reform Act", been the financial corps. who successfully lobbied for it's passage?

I could go on....but I'm sure that you get the idea. What economic benefits have come (or will come to your state), and what have Tennesseans gained, vs. what they could have retained, if they had voted for Gore, instead of for Bush? Is the air or water cleaner, are workers enjoying better or even equal protection, is your state a safer or more popular tourist destination, because you vote republican? Do the economic "benefits" to your state and it's people, outweight the impact of an addition of $3600 billion to total treasury debt? Wouldn't a portion of that debt, if it had to be accrued, had been better spent if a mximum of $2000 billion had been borrowed to pay the SSI Trust fund debt, which would have made funding of SSI "privatization", actually practical, and possible?

If most people vote republican, the consequence will be continued "one party rule" of the federal government. Your answers to the list of what Tennessee has gained, to replace the losses on the ten category list above, may give you insight into the continued consequences of voting for increasingly unaccountable, unresponsive, and secret, government administration.

What are the pluses that you perceive, for voting republican, vs. democrat?
I may seem partisan, but I started out neutral, many years ago, and I read a lot. I don't find any benefit for the people of a below average per capita wealth and income state, to vote to deny a "son" of that state, the presidency in exchange for what they've gotten in return.

Is anything that I've posted, untrue? Why would you even consider voting to keep this party in total control? Would democrats do less for Tennesseans? How?

Originally Posted by Ustwo

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until a majority of voters discover that they can vote themselves largess out of the public treasury." - Alexander Tytler

We are well on our way.

Oh and intense1 welcome to the boards, very nice reply

Originally Posted by host

.....Why is Carter held in such low regard, compared to Reagan, and why are democrats demonized as "tax and spend liberals", given the record that I've outlined? Why would it be in the interest of any working class American, to support Reagan or either Bush? Did Americans receive more from government versus the taxes they paid, the debt that they owe. and pay the interest on,
from the Reagan and 2X Bush administrations, than they would have from four additional years of a Carter presidency, and six years of Al Gore, vs, the ten years that the republicans held the presidency, instead?

Are we, as a nation, safer, enjoying higher environmental quality, more energy independence and conservation, more individual rights, better education and social services, less poverty, better maintained public infrastructure, and better relations with our allies, and non-aligned nations, in a world that has a higher priority of promoting human rights and uniform justice....are our courts more representative and sensitive to today's population demographics in the US....is the workplace safer, and labor organizing oversight, and SEC oversight, and the fiscal soundness of our corporations, because of the higher debt that the ten extra years of republican presidential administration, and congressional "leadership", has provided to us, than if democrats had been elected and served? Is our government less corrupt, more transparent?

Can anyone make an argument that Carter and Gore could have governed in some way that would have been less fair, shortchanged us more, left us with more debt, and in a worse state in our relationship with the community of nations, than we find ourselves in, today? Could we possibly be more dependent on imported petroleum, have a higher trade and budget deficit, have cities and race relations in worse shape, than they are today? Speaking for the 150 million Americans who control less than 2-1/2 percent of the national wealth, and the forty percent who control another 27 percent of that wealth, I just don't see how they could have produced worse results or greater debt, or more gender, race, and sexual orientation based discrimination and inequality or worse international relations, or a greater threat to national security that exorbitant treasury debt and disproportionate energy consumption and dependence, compared to all other nations, than what we currently experience, in all of those categories, can you....how?

Originally Posted by host