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Originally Posted by samcol
Exactly, and that's where we are headed with health care. No smoking, no fast food, you must exercise etc. Employers are already fining people on their health policy for smoking and such. Socialized healthcare is leading down the wrong road.
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I don't really understand how trying to stop people from smoking is such a horrible thing. Smoking is a form of suicide and it's addictive. People who smoke should have to pay more. People who refuse to exercise should pay more. People who eat at McDonald's every day should pay more. That hardly negates the whole thing, though.
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Originally Posted by samcol
By your own admition it's a failed program it seems. A: We pay more money to support the healthcare of these unhealthy individuals or B: We begin outlawing anything perceived by masses as unhealty. Both are bad, people should be able to smoke or be fat and lazy if they want, but I shouldn't have to pay for it.
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I must have missed my admission about how it's a failed program. We pay more in private healthcare than any country pays in socialized or partially socialized medicine, and we still have 45,000,000 people who aren't even covered. Imagine how much more we'd pay if those 45m could afford it.
Even if we had the same tax level for everyone, be they healthy or not, we'd all be paying a lot less. Insurance and malpractice are extremely high drains on the whole process. Without them, and without the drive for profit and to appease investors, the system becomes substantially cheaper.
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Originally Posted by samcol
I just don't understand why people won't let me make my own decisions about something as critical as my health. It's mind boggling.
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It's not a 'decision' not to have health coverage. It's just ignorance. It amazes me that people discuss healthcare as being a decision to make, as if your deciding on what color of car you want. Without healthcare, you're in deep shit. Something "as critical as [your] health" should be important enough for you to be covered. That's the whole idea.
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Originally Posted by samcol
Let's not forget the government will get to decide what is or isn't covered. You want the same government that sends us to needless war and destroys civil liberties to take care of us. You can't possible believe they won't royally fuck healthcare up too.
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Military is in the process of being privatized. Private contracts, mercenaries on the ground, and bought and paid for politicians. Socialized medicine flies in the face of that trend. Socialization is about moving the control from the hands of the proven irresponsible corporations and private interests.
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Originally Posted by samcol
p.s.
And no, I don't believe healthcare falls in the same category as roads and police, especially at a federal level.
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It doesn't yet, but it would under socialization. My point is that I don't see anyone complaining about the government controling things like roads and police. I don't see anyone calling for privatized police (imagine paying $200 a month in case you need to call the police and if you don't pay... no one will protect you) or privatized roads (don't pay your transportation insurance? Good luck getting to work...).