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Cynthetiq · 09-19-2007, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubertuber

That's a good point.

I'd also like to frame the emergency services thing in a different way... See, we already have universal healthcare - it's just the most inefficient and shitty system devisable, and it harms the health of our nation while it drives the cost of care up for everyone.

Cynthetiq - you and I went around about this in the Sicko thread, and I don't think much has changed about either viewpoint. However, I do want to point out that it's naive at best to think that every uninsured guy who comes in the door with a severed finger pays his bill at all, let alone in cash. The uninsured people who are transported to the hospital by medivac and require emergency surgery to even survive the night don't all pay their $100,000 bills. The diabetic who doesn't take care of their condition (because they can't afford preventative checkups and insulin) and requires the amputation of an ulcerous and gangrenous foot to avoid death from sepsis may not pay their $60,000 bill. So who does? You do, in the form of higher hospital service charges and increased insurance rates. There's no real alternative to this. So I move that we accept the fact that by opening the door to emergency services we've already created a national healthcare system which is inefficient and shitty. The question is whether we'll improve it or stand our ground on ideological concerns which are moot.

And I'm fine with that as it is. Because they don't pay already. So I'm already paying for it. From what I read and understand I will pay more not less for those that aren't able to pay for it. I'm not interested in that.

Charlataan, yes. That is in effect what I'm saying. I'm not painting any rosy pictures here. Thin out the herd. If you cannot take care of yourself, the collective should forever?

Should we just then have organic food for everyone? I mean it's better for them in the long run. Why not it's their health we are talking about if they are just eating McDonald's, KFC or BK Lounge. So we should pay for someone to have triple and quadruple bypasses because they didn't choose to eat healthier? They were too busy doing whatever else they were doing to cook or purchase healthier meals and I'm supposed to feel bad for them?

Should you and I foot the bill because someone is a chronic drug addict and isn't interested in rehabilitation?

Again, I see it as choices. You make the choice to smoke? Why the fuck shoud I pay for your poor fucked ass with a lung transplant? Shouldn't there be consequences to actions? Or let's toss that out too since we're talking about the betterment of human beings and all that kumbayayas.

As far as Diabetes is concerned onset Type II diabetes is growing exponentially. Do you think that it's something that just happened? or do you think that there are lifestyle choices such as eating right and excercising that are made that remove it from being critical?

At what point is it okay for me and you guys to tell me you are done taking money out of my pocket and my quality of life? Where does it end?

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

Socialized medicine is better for the average person there, and it's better for the super rich here. I, alone, make over $150k a year. I still get shitty medical care. I was turned down for a surgery because it wasn't cost effective. I'm not a celebrity or super rich. I wonder why you'd want a medical system that is only adequate for ~2% of the population.

Then maybe you should spend more of your money to pay for those starving people in Africa and other third world countries. Maybe that will assuage your guilt.

Think of how many mouths that will feed. I mean in ratio it's just like how much the CEO of Kaiser's salary will cover surgeries. Don't you want to keep those others alive????