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Originally Posted by filtherton
By late infant/toddler, social constraints are already there. Socialization begins at day one, some people might argue it begins before the baby is even born. I don't know anything about your experience with infants, but my experience with them has been completely different from what you describe. It's not like kids that age are too young to have motivations for their behaviors. For you to ascribe to them some sort of innate tendency towards violence completely ignores the fact that they are already individuals, absorbing information from their surroundings constantly, with their own personal tendencies and temperaments.
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Alot here to chew on, thanks. While I agree with you that learned behavior is a factor later on in life (and to varying degrees) I disagree that there no instinctual acts of aggression in early childhood, ie., that from birth there is only Nurture over Nature. For example, I would characterize acts of self-preservation as aggressive behavior, such as biting due to physical discomfort, or screaming for food. Would you agree?
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If animals are innately violent, then how come the wild ones aren't all on constant rampages? As far as i can tell, most of them live almost completely peaceful lives, and only resort to violence when they feel threatened or need to eat. They aren't socialized at all. What's their excuse for being able to overcome in their constant struggle with their appetite for destruction? If socialization is the root of humanity's ability to set aside it's blood lust, what qualities do animals possess that allow them to set aside their blood lust without the benefit of socialization, and do these qualities, by virtue of their innateness, actually mean that animals are naturally more discrete than humanity in their use of violence? Does this mean that animals are actually more civilized than humans?
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Not quite sure I follow. Which animals are you referring to? I don't think I said that all animals are as innately aggressive as Man. There are certain african fish (cichlids) that are extraordinaily aggressive and territorial (I used to collect them), but they don't "hunt for pleasure" in the wild as far as I know. There have been occurences of tigers in India killing humans for reasons other than eating them, but tigers are solitary. As for animals being more 'civilized' than humans, good question - although I've never seen a gorilla play the piano. :P
But seriously, yes I think it's safe to say that man is more aggressive towards his fellow man than any other animal towards its own, if that is what you meant.