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Originally Posted by ubertuber
That's an interesting way to frame this thread. However, if you think about it in a larger context, what you are saying is really so well understood that it's a truism.
Does any of us really believe that we are free of the consequences of our own actions? Does any of us really think that we live in a vacuum, without relationship to anything around us?
The value in reframing these understood things in the way you have, albania, is that it causes us to look freshly at what it known.
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Right, this is true. But my point was that the proof of the value of interconnectedness does not follow from the facts. We look at the things we have in common, to refer to pan's later post the ripples we make, and we don't see them for what they truly are, facts. From these facts the things we wish don't necessarily follow; i.e. (not that anyone specifically made this argument) it does not follow, at least for me, that everyone should try to get along or that we should hold ourselves responsible for the well being of others that we influence. One can even make the case that interconnectedness has bad implications; my conjarbled attempt to show this was my initial post.
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It's a good point, however, just because one is interconnected does not take out free will and one's choices.
A drug addict arguably chose to do the drugs that addicted him. His family is affected, their friends are affected because of their worry, disgust, embarrassment, etc.... the addict's friends are affected because the addict was a close friend and ended up hurting them, he may introduce some friends to the drug and turns them into addicts, and they do that to their friends and so on and so on.... those friends not drug addicted are affected by their reactions and how they handle future friends..... society is affected by the loss of a worker, the individual talents the addict has, the crimes he may commit, having to pay for his healthcare, jail time, rehabs, etc.
Now, this addict also affects the drug dealer selling the stuff, the supplier who stops farming food and farms poppies or coca (for example), he affects governments, gives terrorist cells profits, affects forests and so on.
Thus, one had the choice but his choice affected large amounts of people, society as a whole and the world surrounding him and everyone.
When you truly think about it, every decision we as individuals, we as cities, counties, states, nations, society and so on make..... the ripples in some way, are truly felt everywhere else around the world.
But free will exists, in spite of it. We need free will to grow and expand, it is free will that has made us what we are, good or bad. It is free will of individuals that will either destroy mankind or save mankind and in turn destroy the planet or save the planet.
God/Mother Earth/ Buddha/ Zeus/ Apollo/ Ra/ whomever you believe in or even evolution.... gave us free will and individuality for a reason. We as individuals have to decide for ourselves how to use it and hope that the good outweighs the bad choices in the end.
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This is the way I wish I could see the world. However, you chose to single out an example of a negative effect. Suppose, in a similar fashion there is a positive effect. Is there any difference between these actions in the interconnected world I thought of. Not really, ultimately, they are both just expressions of how we connect to the things around us, neither is a better or worse expression of that fact. Such a base system does not really allow for value judgments.
To deviate for a moment. For that matter what system of thought when broken down to the base truly allows for value judgments? I seem to have gotten myself nowhere, and I can't seem to answer a question that has popped in my mind as I was responding: In what way do I see the world that allows for me to logically make a value judgment? All I know is that interconnectedness never sat right with me.