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Originally Posted by JinnKai
On the flip side, you're showing me that you don't understand the "protect myself and property" mentality. I do not go about my day believing that no one will hurt me, or that someone does not wish to hurt me or my property just because they claim to be part of an organization that doesn't hurt people.
I'd much prefer to err on the side of being prepared and assuming someone is going to hurt me then be hurt and think "gosh, I wish I had been ready for that."
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Again, statistically it would be more reasonable to prepare for anthrax in the mail. Being prepare for a danger like GreenPeace attacking is about as reasonable as preparing for, say, the second coming of Christ. Some people may want to do it, but they're crazy for thinking it's reasonable. You're wasting your time and energy thinking you're in danger from or preparing for an attack from GreenPeace.
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Originally Posted by JinnKai
If someone is boarding my ship or climbing into my car without my permission I don't care who they are or what group they claim to be part of; they are a threat to my person and my property. Of course you have to match force with force, but the rule still applies that it's better to be safe than sorry.
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They shouldn't have boarded the ship. It was stupid. That said, there still wasn't any danger.
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Originally Posted by hagatha
if the aim of Greenpeace was to stir up the masses by this questionable protest, they really failed. i was in Ontario when it happened and it was on the media radar for about a day and then was gone.
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This is probably what we should be talking about (instead of preparing for an imminent attack from GreenPeace). Obviously, GreenPeace had good intentions, but not only was it dangerous to board a ship (for them, they could be shot boarding a ship if they were confused for a pirate, which I guess is a reasonable mistake...) but either no one knows or cares, or people are pissed. It was a big fat failure, and it's a shame that the leadership at GP wasn't able to formulate a better plan. I'm thinking about joining just to make them more effective in their tactics. Boarding a ship is exciting and fun for them, but it's the wrong way to deliver the message.
Thank you, hagatha, for reiterating an excellent point.
Ustwo, first off thanks for providing links. Second, read your post again. GreenPeace isn't doing anything violent, and the suggestion that GP is 'associated' with other groups like 'Black Bloc' seem to magically appear without any citation or evidence. One can say GreenPeace is associated with ELF if one was so inclined, but that wouldn't make it true. Sometimes they share goals. That's it.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Fear not fact, the montra of the modern 'environmentalist'.
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Yea mean like comparing a peacefful protest to someone holding a gun to your head?
Jinn, those un-linked articles are pretty weak. Spraying seals with a dye isn't violence. There is zero evidence to suggest that it has any effect on their ability to stay warm, and The usually blue color that seals are sprayed with could theoretically help them more than hurt them when they're in the water, where they spend a vast majority of their time. As for Poor Paul, he
he left GreenPeace in 1977, 10 whole years before the incident in question. Why was he kicked out? You'll love this. GreenPeace didn't approve of his tactics. Crazy, right? I'm sorry, but this is really cut and dry.
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Originally Posted by Ubertuber
And will, your definition of violence seems strained - I doubt you'd argue about the emotional violence inflicted by racism.
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Emotional violence is different than physical violence. When GP says it's non-violent, as I've said, they mean they will not commit physical violence. They will commit emotional violence, and may even damage property (so long as it doesn't put people in danger), but they will not commit violent acts that put anyone but themselves in danger.