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roachboy · 09-13-2007, 01:55 PM

i still dont see what lucifer was arguing in the op.
so far from the thread, nothing has been explained.

the argument concerning piracy seems to me moot: the argument regarding losses to the shipping company trivial. two problems with the last argument: (a) no context.
factoids without context are worthless.
for example, what tonnage is being transferred, how many days did it take and what did the shipper pay? how much does the shipping company stand to make off this transfer? but even with that information, the claim is still trivial...

(b) map the defenses of private interests over political rights above onto the matter of principle...

it looks like is that a segment of the folk posting to this thread effectively oppose greenpeace's right to protest at all--but they wont say as much, so prefer to hide behind property claims.

but look at it this way: private property is a legal construct. as a legal construct, they are extensions of state power. as extension of state power, they are also political. as political, private property claims operate at the consent of the governed.

following from this the right of the public to protest overrides private property claims. they implicitly suspend the illusion of consent. they involve, then, the assertion of public interest over private interests. if that is the case, then the private property based arguments against the greepeace action are moot.

so if there is no principled basis for opposing what greenpeace did that can be rooted in a claim that private property supercedes the public's right to protest, then the claims above regarding the material losses sustained by the shipping line because of this action amount to arguments against the right to protest at all.
do you actually believe that private property obviates the right to political protest?
if you believe that, then you oppose the right to politial protest at all.
why?

09-13-2007, 01:55 PM	#69 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i still dont see what lucifer was arguing in the op. so far from the thread, nothing has been explained. the argument concerning piracy seems to me moot: the argument regarding losses to the shipping company trivial. two problems with the last argument: (a) no context. factoids without context are worthless. for example, what tonnage is being transferred, how many days did it take and what did the shipper pay? how much does the shipping company stand to make off this transfer? but even with that information, the claim is still trivial... (b) map the defenses of private interests over political rights above onto the matter of principle... it looks like is that a segment of the folk posting to this thread effectively oppose greenpeace's right to protest at all--but they wont say as much, so prefer to hide behind property claims. but look at it this way: private property is a legal construct. as a legal construct, they are extensions of state power. as extension of state power, they are also political. as political, private property claims operate at the consent of the governed. following from this the right of the public to protest overrides private property claims. they implicitly suspend the illusion of consent. they involve, then, the assertion of public interest over private interests. if that is the case, then the private property based arguments against the greepeace action are moot. so if there is no principled basis for opposing what greenpeace did that can be rooted in a claim that private property supercedes the public's right to protest, then the claims above regarding the material losses sustained by the shipping line because of this action amount to arguments against the right to protest at all. do you actually believe that private property obviates the right to political protest? if you believe that, then you oppose the right to politial protest at all. why? __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 09-13-2007 at 01:57 PM..