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Ustwo · 09-10-2007, 01:14 PM

My current book I'm reading and about 1/2 way through is 'The Ancestors Tale' by Richard Dawkins.

For those of you who don't know who he is, he is an evolutionary biologist who wrote 'The God Delusion' and if you still don't know who he is, he was married to Mrs. Garrison in a South Park episode.

He's kind of a dick about his opinions, which explains why I like him even when I don't agree with him 100%.

He is a premiere evolutionary biologist. One of my few regrets is that I didn't persue evolutionary biology as a carreer. Its something I'm a true natural at, I set the curve in an 800 person class without cracking a book, and if you show me an animal I can almost trace its evolution just based on the physiology and ethology. Potential perhaps wasted but I can't complain.

Now most of you have already stopped reading, but for those who haven't I'm sure you are wondering how this all ties into this thread.

Well just in two points. One was a part where he was talking about the theory of plate techtonics. At the time in the 60's this was still contriversial and he mentioned how after a lecture on it his professor took a vote in the class what their thoughts were (50-50 btw). He lamented that a vote was taken as truth is not determined by voting and it sends the wrong message to the students.

Then he mentioned how antartica was once sub-tropical (and it was at the pole, it must have been an amazing place with amazing adaptations due to the light/dark cycle and if I had stupid money I'd sponser a major paelentological dig there).

You see there were several periods of time where the poles had no ice at all, and at least once it appears the world was 100% covered with ice. Climatology really isn't a big enough word to cover trying to understand this, its really planetology, though even that doesn't cover it as the sun figures into the equation directly and perhaps most strongly of all.

You can argue until you are blue in the face about what you THINK is happening, but really no one knows. None of the current models can explain the cooling in the 1970's or the little ice age. In fact some are going so far as to try and claim they didn't happen in order to make the models look better. No one knows why Europe was warmer in Roman times, and while deforestation was once blamed for the Sahara desert now being a desert, it seems its far more complex than ancient humans cutting down trees for ships. Hell climate change is a possible culprit for the weakening of the Roman empire according to some historians.

The problem is we don't rightly know how the system works.

Now you can say the logical choice would be, since we don't know, we should make sure we don't do anything that might affect this. In most cases I do agree with this type of thinking, but not here. Mostly because the solutions are such that either they are expensive and would make NO impact on the climate like Koyto (even Koyto supporters have admitted this) or are so restrictive that they become not expensive but repressive. Real DATA, not computer models but monkey see monkey measure data does not support the conclusion that we are the cause of a warming trend.

Compared to natural green house gas sources, humanity is pretty weak. Perhaps the worst offenders are not our cars, but our cows, and even then, we may have billions of livestock animals, much of those have just replaced the original fauna such as the buffalo, Elk, an large ruminants, so how much of an increase I'm not sure.

My point is you don't change millions of peoples lives on a unproven chance. The same type of people, and I'd guess some of the same people who want this now are the same ones that thought we should blacken the poles in the 1970's to prevent the great global cooling that would have starved millions of us by the 90's had it been true. They lamented the governments lack of interest and how they wouldn't do anything until it was 'too late'. Then a mere 5 years later, its all about the global warming.

09-10-2007, 01:14 PM	#32 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	My current book I'm reading and about 1/2 way through is 'The Ancestors Tale' by Richard Dawkins. For those of you who don't know who he is, he is an evolutionary biologist who wrote 'The God Delusion' and if you still don't know who he is, he was married to Mrs. Garrison in a South Park episode. He's kind of a dick about his opinions, which explains why I like him even when I don't agree with him 100%. He is a premiere evolutionary biologist. One of my few regrets is that I didn't persue evolutionary biology as a carreer. Its something I'm a true natural at, I set the curve in an 800 person class without cracking a book, and if you show me an animal I can almost trace its evolution just based on the physiology and ethology. Potential perhaps wasted but I can't complain. Now most of you have already stopped reading, but for those who haven't I'm sure you are wondering how this all ties into this thread. Well just in two points. One was a part where he was talking about the theory of plate techtonics. At the time in the 60's this was still contriversial and he mentioned how after a lecture on it his professor took a vote in the class what their thoughts were (50-50 btw). He lamented that a vote was taken as truth is not determined by voting and it sends the wrong message to the students. Then he mentioned how antartica was once sub-tropical (and it was at the pole, it must have been an amazing place with amazing adaptations due to the light/dark cycle and if I had stupid money I'd sponser a major paelentological dig there). You see there were several periods of time where the poles had no ice at all, and at least once it appears the world was 100% covered with ice. Climatology really isn't a big enough word to cover trying to understand this, its really planetology, though even that doesn't cover it as the sun figures into the equation directly and perhaps most strongly of all. You can argue until you are blue in the face about what you THINK is happening, but really no one knows. None of the current models can explain the cooling in the 1970's or the little ice age. In fact some are going so far as to try and claim they didn't happen in order to make the models look better. No one knows why Europe was warmer in Roman times, and while deforestation was once blamed for the Sahara desert now being a desert, it seems its far more complex than ancient humans cutting down trees for ships. Hell climate change is a possible culprit for the weakening of the Roman empire according to some historians. The problem is we don't rightly know how the system works. Now you can say the logical choice would be, since we don't know, we should make sure we don't do anything that might affect this. In most cases I do agree with this type of thinking, but not here. Mostly because the solutions are such that either they are expensive and would make NO impact on the climate like Koyto (even Koyto supporters have admitted this) or are so restrictive that they become not expensive but repressive. Real DATA, not computer models but monkey see monkey measure data does not support the conclusion that we are the cause of a warming trend. Compared to natural green house gas sources, humanity is pretty weak. Perhaps the worst offenders are not our cars, but our cows, and even then, we may have billions of livestock animals, much of those have just replaced the original fauna such as the buffalo, Elk, an large ruminants, so how much of an increase I'm not sure. My point is you don't change millions of peoples lives on a unproven chance. The same type of people, and I'd guess some of the same people who want this now are the same ones that thought we should blacken the poles in the 1970's to prevent the great global cooling that would have starved millions of us by the 90's had it been true. They lamented the governments lack of interest and how they wouldn't do anything until it was 'too late'. Then a mere 5 years later, its all about the global warming. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.