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Originally Posted by Mojo_PeiPei
Ace fundamentally I do not disagree with you. But I personally think you give to much credit to the Dubya foreign policy, at least how it relates to North Korea.
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I admit to making overly simplified statements in regard to this issue. I do understand the complexities and the involvement of other nations.
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North Korea really is not a threat to America. Never has been, but could possibly be... down the line. I would say you have to approach policy by region. In the Pacific region North Korea is not our primary worry, China is. This is what would ultimatly feed into the Wolfowitz doctrine, as I have come to understand it.
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I agree that there is a concern about China. I have come to the conclusion that we have become too "civilized" to really understand the nature of a threat. Every nation watches everything we do in response to acts of defiance. Perceived weakness or a failure to respond emboldens more powerful threats. If we don't respond to Iraq, others make judgments on that lack of a response. If we don't respond to NK others make judgments on that lack of response. China certainly will assume the position of dealing with NK the way they want if we don't respond. It is to our advantage to take one of the leading roles with NK. I think Bush understands that, I am not sure everyone in Washington does.
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If you look at the Middle East, there is no major threat even an Iraq that had WMDs is no great threat to us.
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One problem I have had on this issue is clearly on how I define threat as compared to you and others. In my mind Saddam's defiance and his failure to follow the mandates of the UN were the biggest threats. I think the same is true with NK.
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Originally Posted by dc_dux
It hard for me to imagine how anyone can characterize our cowboy actions in Iraq as precedent for anything positive or that Bush diplomacy works. The use (or threat) of unilateral pre-emptive force is not diplomacy.
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You don't have to imagine how, you are interacting with someone who does characterize our cowboy action in Iraq as precedent for positives and that Bush diplomacy works. If you have specific questions, feel free to ask.
How do you define diplomacy? Again, are you an individual who would never under any circumstance use preemptive force?
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The Bush doctrine ("cowboy diplomacy") failed miserably in its first test with the unprovoked invasion of Iraq. With all the bluster about WMD and Saddam's brutality to his own people, the result of our invasion has not created a better state for the Iraqi people, stabilized the region or lessened the threat of terrorism. In fact, quite the opposite.
Iran now has greater influence both in Iraq and the region, the Iraqi people are in the midst of the worst sectarian violence the country has ever seen (much of Baghdad has been ethnically cleansed of Sunnis), our actions have been the best recruiting tool for al Queda that we could have provided, and the image of the US around the world has never been lower.
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We have not seen how this is going to play out. You may be correct, but in the end you may end up being wrong.
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Originally Posted by willravel
I've had to be diplomatic a lot in my life and treating someone like garbage then ignoring them is a really great way to lose control of them.
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Have you ever "walked away", only to have the other party come back with material concessions?
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Losing a war to a poor and supposedly incapable people shows them Bush's weak.
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First, Bush does not fight. This is "our" war. I am not sure how you conclude we are losing a war.
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Losing the respect of and control of the voter base in the states shows Bush can't rule his own country.
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Yet, Bush has gotten everything he has wanted in regard to this war. Name something he has wanted and did not get.
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Sounding like you're half past retarded when you speak shows you're an okey and shouldn't be taken seriously.
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Oooh. My feeling are so hurt. Considering the fallacious arguments I encounter on a comparative basis I would hope to be considered fully retarded by those who don't see the issues clearly.
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Put all of that together and you've got a diplomatic nightmare.
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Are these comments illustrative of your superior diplomacy skills compared to Bush?