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Originally Posted by analog
To say that the customs of another culture which indicate the killing of another human being are not capable of our understanding is shortsighted. Just because we are not of their upbringing, values, morality, religion, etc., does not mean that we do not all possess the simple capacity for the basic value of human life.
You also cannot cop-out to this behavior by admonishing it first and then just as quickly taking back any actual judgment of it, as something we can't understand, in the same sentence. It seems like a very passive-aggressive way of indicating disagreement without actually committing to a negative opinion of others' beliefs.
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I have committed repeatedly to a negative opinion of this belief. I am not copping out of anything.
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Killing another person is wrong- period, end of story, checkmate, BINGO, gin, and Yahtzee- and no human being on the planet, regardless of who they are, is exempt from that most basic of ideals. The guys knew they were wrong in doing it, they are just hiding behind what they call their beliefs to justify their uncontrolled, racist rage.
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Other than your use of the word 'racist' which doesn't belong in this context if we are talking about honor killings, I agree with you. In fact, I'll go so far as to maybe assert that I agree with this even more than you do yourself.
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Saying we cannot understand the religious/cultural implications in what has happened is akin to dismissing our ability to judge the circa 1800's to early 1900's often-performed tradition of hanging black people as being unfamiliar with the culture of the American racist in that time period. Strong religious, or cultural, personal beliefs are not ever grounds for murder, and that's that.
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I have not given anyone grounds for murder. You align me with ideas that I have never written or implied.
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Apples and oranges. The main issue is that with child beatings, they often go on undetected by outsiders for long periods of time, if they're ever caught at all. If they are found out, the penalties are typically pretty severe. The reason that force won't curb this behavior is that it's not operating under a belief set, it's just an asshole who thinks the only way to keep the kids in line is by beating them. I agree that these cannot be stopped by force, as they are individually motivated acts. The acts of violence we're talking about in this thread are motivated by a shared set of beliefs among some group of people.
And "honor" is hardly a banal reason. "Honor" is always part of a belief structure, and people will do just about anything, including kill or give their lives, to uphold or enforce their beliefs.
footnote: when I say "belief structure", I don't mean that it's part of the actual religion they practice, but part of some offshoot belief structure that some have subscribed to, which is not in keeping with the actual religion they claim to represent.
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I didn't say that 'honor' was banal, I said that people kill their children for reasons
much less banal than honor.
Also, one more thing, I never compared child abuse to honor killings I compared the difficulties in forcing a solution to the problem. And in fact I said in my own post the issue was not law enforcement but changing attitudes. So all in all I think we agree on this issue more than we disagree.