Hey! Welcome back!
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
While it presents itself as an 'advanced' type of society, its appeal is to the most basic nature of man, and that is sloth and jealousy.
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And capitalism is an appeal to greed and envy. A dictatorship is an appeal to pride and... I can't fit lust into this.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
It is very appealing to lazy intellectuals who are jealous of wealth they don't poses but feel they deserve. Being very smart in a job that pays poorly is irksome when you feel superior to those who's pursuits earn them wealth. Undoubtedly this is a contributing factor to the number of college professors who seem to rally around the socialist banner. Wealth being relative, they would rather someone else doesn't have it and that it was 'fairly distributed'.
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Maybe we can ask some of the professors around here instead of having to guess why some of them are socialist leaning. Being smart in a job that pays poorly is simply one way in which capitalism can be a broken system.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
It is likewise appealing to some members of the mega-rich. These people have more wealth than they can spend in several life times. There is some guilt involved, and there is some dark self serving nature too, with socialism making it harder for new people to join their club. The classic example of this is a limousine liberal like Barbara Streisand.
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Well some rich people are idiots, and that's bound to happen. I suspect that even Barbera has some altruistim behind her wish to give some of her wealth to those who need it. It's really about a belief in equality and a willingness to admit that while life isn't fair, it's not a bad thing to try and make it more fair. I'm sure that those people I help out financially appreciate it and don't take it for granted. How do I know this? They're starving.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Joining the ranks would be the ‘bleeding hearts’. These are people who think you need to give a man a fish, and when he fails to fish for his own meal, give him another fish. They seriously want to help their fellow man (with other peoples money) and don’t seem to grasp that hand outs are a poor investment in the future.
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Ah, but it's not other people's money. In a socialist system, everyone pays a little. Even me. Also, you're looking at this from the perspective of capitalism still. Giving to the poor or needy isn't about an investment that you'll see a necessary return on. It's about doing the right thing.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Then there are the prols. Socialism is just, on paper to them, free money. Its a self serving system. I'm poor so you pay for me. They are fueled in part by politicians who convince them that society owes them something just for breathing.
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The poor pay into the system too, just not as much.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Finally you have the politicians. Socialism is their tool to power. It can be a powerful coalition with a very large voter base in the prols and more than a good share of the intellectual effete. They create vote plantations among the poor with welfare type systems, while pretending its about compassion or fairness. Its just vote buying.
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I'd say proper socialism happens in the context of a free state, or a state that has representation of the people and has a constitution and body of laws to prevent the state from being controlled from the top.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Socialism is a self defeating system in the end, which creates a highly stratified society. It can only maintain itself for so long off the production of the middle and upper class before the incentive to put the kind of effort it takes to be in the middle class is lost. As more and more people take, and there is less to take, the services provided start to shrink. This has already been happening with the European socialist model, and it will continue to do so with time.
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It's easy to say that socialism is self defeating in theory, but in practice the economies of Europe are thriving and the US dollar is at an all time low and show no signs of gaining worth in the near future. Frankly, we're an excellent example of how capitalism and privatization really isn't the way to go. NHS, while not perfect, is amazing compared to the private systems in the US. They pay less and get more. I'd call that a good deal.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
There is of course a sustainable level of socialism, much like a parasite that doesn’t kill its host, socialism can exist if it allows enough economic freedom to justify the effort it takes to generate new wealth. The problem is that in a democratic system, where the public knows it can vote itself money from the treasury, human nature takes sway.
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I'd be careful calling things like firefighting and police work parasitic. Had those systems been privatized, we'd be paying hundreds of dollars a month for firefighter and police insurance, just like we do for medicine.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
Socialism could work in a sort of benign dictatorship situation, but that too only would work in theory, as we all know what the end result of such systems appears to be with millions upon millions killed by their own socialist governments in the name of progress.
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Pure socialism works best in a tribal organization. Not even I would promote pure socialism in our current world, though. There are way too many people. Socialist systems working along side other systems, though, is optimal. BTW, I don't see millions killed by the French government, which is pretty socialist.
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Originally Posted by Ustwo
In the end though, socialism will always be around, its emotional appeal is too strong, too easy to fool people into thinking that they are helping, to easy to get people to think they are getting something for nothing, to easy to make college students in the coffee shop who think they are superior to most men yet are less productive in society than the waitress serving them, that THIS time, it will work.
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I suspect if you ask the people I help through donations of time and money, they'd explain to yo how I was helping. Not only that, but people in Europe are baffled by our medical system. I also suspect they'd admit that they are being helped by their medical systems.