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Originally Posted by ratbastid
On a slightly tangential point: What about an administration that systematically uses fear and the looming threat of attack to further their agenda? Is that terrorism? Whether you'd say it is or not, would you say that it's immoral?
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Yes.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Had Saddam attacked the US, we would have been right to respond. This is, of course, hypothetical, as Saddam couldn't have attacked the US even if he wanted to.
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Do you consider attacking our allies or our interests the same as a direct attack on our shores?
Do you consider aiding those who would directly attack our shores the same as a direct attack?
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Originally Posted by ratbastid
Groups of people up to and including governments and societies have the same control. People (and groups of people) might pretend they DON'T have that control, and may pretend that they're forced into something by outside events or circumstances. It's much easier to pretend to be forced into things--you don't have to deal with the ramifications of your actions. But that's not the truth. The truth is, you always have a choice.
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Was the US forced into WWII after the attack on Peril Harbor? I agree that in a theoretical view, we had the choice to ignore the attack and the declaration of war against us, but the reality is that we really had no choice in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by pig
[b]i think it moderately humorous that people will talk about personal accountability for their actions, being their own man, making their decisions and come what may - above all live for your principles (which are largely conveyed as being judeo-christian 'thou shou not kill, thou shall not steal, thou shall not covet, etc) - but somehow these fundamental personal principles never seem to translate to a social level. its as though when you have 10 or more people present, then all that goes to shit, and it's every man for himself, only the strongest survive...it's a dog-eat-dog world out there and by joe! we have to fight it out in this cold pragmatic tough luck horatio alger world. i've never understood the disconnect.
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Some principles are in conflict as is there a conflict between our humanistic and animalistic nature. I just choose to acknowledge that. Most people are far from perfect.
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it's like watching a panoramic play about the fear of death and loss of ego working itself out on a worldly stage...holy shit! that's exactly what it is. well, in my humble opinion. but fear of death above principle doesn't square with the image that is publicly broadcast, and so it is not frequently discussed.
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I fear the loss of freedom more than I fear the loss of life.