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Originally Posted by aceventura3
I think we are getting into an area covered in great detail in the past. We will never see this the same way, I don't think I can add anything new.
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I need to be clear on this point, as apparently you've still missed this point: Iraq didn't attack us on 9/11. Not only did they have nothing to do with 9/11, but Saddam Hussain hated Osama Bin Laden and took an active role in ensuring that the al Qaeda 'terrorist network' was never able to move in to or have any level of influence in Iraq.
When you said "One key difference is that terrorist will attack us on our soil." in referring to Iraq, you were totally incorrect. It's not a matter of perspective that Iraq didn't attack us.
It's a matter of proven and verified fact that Iraq had no connections to 9/11. Even those who misled us into Iraq with their claims of ties between Iraq and al Qaeda have long since explained that they were wrong.
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Originally Posted by aceventura3
My view on religion is libertarian, I could careless about your religion. What do you think the goal of Islamic extremists is? I think they want to control the way people practice religion.
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As someone who knows several radical Muslims, I can say with total confidence that you're wrong. They'd be happy if Islam continued to grow in the US, but they are not fighting for that to happen. The goal of the violent radical elements in Middle Eastern Islam want to be left alone or want revenge for past interference. Whether they want Israel out of Palestine, the US out of Iraq, or want to punish the US for our role in the Iraq-Iran War, they are fighting for reasons that really have nothing at all to do with converting anyone to Islam.
Some of them may want to control Islam there, but they aren't going to blow up a building so I'll pray to Allah. That's just not how it works.
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Originally Posted by aceventura3
Japan attacked us during WWII, would you have rolled over and took it up the what ever, or would you have responded with force? If yes, at what point would the cost have been too high for you? Or, what price are you willing to pay for freedom? Would you fight for the freedom of others, why or why not?
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I would have acted on the pre-Pearl Harbor intelligence and intercepted the fleet at sea with fighter planes. This is of course assuming I was allowed a time machine and a high military rank back in the 1940s. See how helpful hypotheticals are?
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Originally Posted by aceventura3
We are trying to fight a "politically correct" war against an enemy who will do anything, including strapping bombs on children. Peacenics will protest and complain about our tactics but are silent when terrorists kill Red Cross workers trying to save lives. I say if you and the peacenics want the war to end - go over to Iraq and ask the terrorists to lay down their arms, stop targeting innocent people and ask them to use diplomacy to get what they want.
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Oh boy, that's a strawman. No one is 'silent' about anything, except for the apathetic people. I will protest about murder, no matter who is responsible. Are we really surprised that a nation we invaded is fighting back? I abhor any war, but I'm not beyond comprehending reasons behind fighting. It's not difficult for me to put myself into the shoes of US or Iraqis over in Iraq.
As for targeting innocent people, let the military that is without sin cast the first stone. All I hear out of Iraq is reports of US convoys firing on unarmed Iraqi civilians. Do you think that conservative 600,000 Iraqi civilian deaths number is a joke? Do you know how many innocent people have been killed by US forces?
I'll go over to Iraq and ask the US soldiers to lay down their arms, stop shooting or kidnapping and torturing innocent people and ask them to use diplomacy to get what they want. We'll see how well that goes over.
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Originally Posted by aceventura3
There is now. The Bush strategy is to fight them in Iraq. Their strategy is to fight us in Iraq. Both sides recognize the value of the Iraq target, even if you don't.
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We, the USA, brought al Qaeda to Iraq. We broke down what was a relatively stable state that had managed to keep terrorists out and let them in. We are supporting global terrorism. We have failed where Saddam was easily successful. What's even worse is that our presence is galvanizing and helping to organize Iraqis who are ripe for the al Qaeda.
Do you know what the mission of the al Qaeda is? The end of foreign influence in the Middle East. And people say if we pull out it will help the al Qaeda come to power in Iraq. That's just niave. Our presence is the factor leading to the spread and growth of al Qaeda.