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Originally Posted by ratbastid
The great irony, of course, is that if we had elected a "flip-flopper" instead of reelecting the Simpleton In Chief, we most likely wouldn't be in the quagmire we're in now.
ace... What you said you like about Bush is that he says his truth and sticks by it. So... Help me here. You admire steadfastness in Bush, but you admire in Cheney the ability to reconsider?
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If I have to explain it, you probably won't really understand the difference. When decisions are made on the basis of core principles, the decisions may be correct or incorrect, reconsidered, altered, etc, but the basis is honest and consistent. That I respect, even when I disagree with the decision. For example I respect Kucinich and his stance on the war although I disagree with him and would never support him, his objections to the war are based on principle. I have no respect for Edwards' and his stance on poverty, his position is based on his attempts to mold public opinion so that he gets media attention and votes.
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Originally Posted by willravel
I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about Iraq, not the al Qaeda attacking on 9/11. I'm sure you know that Iraq and Saddam had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks on American soil. You can't get attacked by one enemy and blame it on all your enemies.
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I think we are getting into an area covered in great detail in the past. We will never see this the same way, I don't think I can add anything new.
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They aren't trying to convert me to Islam any more than you're trying to convert me to Christianity.
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My view on religion is libertarian, I could careless about your religion. What do you think the goal of Islamic extremists is? I think they want to control the way people practice religion.
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All that tells me is we've always been spending too much on war. Still, this is the most expensive war we've ever fought.
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Japan attacked us during WWII, would you have rolled over and took it up the what ever, or would you have responded with force? If yes, at what point would the cost have been too high for you? Or, what price are you willing to pay for freedom? Would you fight for the freedom of others, why or why not?
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Here is where you disagree? I thought you were disagreeing with me above...
The thing is wars aren't won by will (the verb, not the proper noun). They are won by strategy and capability. We have neither the strategy nor the capability to win the war. Why do you think the word 'draft' keeps getting tossed around? We don't have the necessary manpower to reach or sustain peace in Iraq. Even if we started sending mall security and war reenactors over there, we'd still be undermanned. That's the reality of the situation. How is that 10,000 man surge doing?
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We are trying to fight a "politically correct" war against an enemy who will do anything, including strapping bombs on children. Peacenics will protest and complain about our tactics but are silent when terrorists kill Red Cross workers trying to save lives. I say if you and the peacenics want the war to end - go over to Iraq and ask the terrorists to lay down their arms, stop targeting innocent people and ask them to use diplomacy to get what they want.
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There was no al Qaeda presence in Iraq before we invaded. Saddam hated them, specifically OBL. He wanted control over his own country and saw them as a serious threat. Iraq may have been a dangerous state (15 years ago), but there was no terrorist presence there.
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There is now. The Bush strategy is to fight them in Iraq. Their strategy is to fight us in Iraq. Both sides recognize the value of the Iraq target, even if you don't.