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Originally Posted by host
ace and joshb....aside from a progressive income tax heavily weighted against the those making the highest incomes (the top ten percent already own 70 percent of all US wealth), and by inheritance taxes on million dollar plus estates,
how would you fairly tax the folks detailed in this post...
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...2&postcount=21 ? |
A progressive tax is one thing. But we have a system of taxation that is worse in the fact that it is a system that creates major obstacles for poor and middle class people from becoming wealthy. Our currents system tends to entrench the rich and creates a permanent class system. If you work, taxes are paid on your work before you see any of the money. If you save, taxes are paid on any income from those savings as current income. If you invest and have long-term capital gains you are taxed at a favorable rate. In order to become an investor you have to get past the first two. If you are already rich you start as an investor.
Rich people avoid inheritance taxes through complicated trusts and other means to shelter their wealth. For example, Bill Walton of Walmart made sure his children owned shares of Walmart in their names - no tax on his death. The Kennedy's still benefit from the wealth accumulated by Joe Kennedy, several generations after his death thanks to complicated trusts.
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Neil Bush, GHW Bush, his brother, William Bush, their lawyer, James Baker, the VP Dick Cheney, GW Bush's buddy, Joe Allbaugh, and the CNP millionaire and Blackwater founder and sole owner, Erik Prince, as the post at the link above informs us, all made appreciable sums as a direct result of their connections, and the opportunities from the war in Iraq.
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So did all of the investors in Haliburton. Why shouldn't the average person be able to invest in a company like Haliburton and start to creat real wealth that could be passed on to thier children. Imagine a 20 year old who could put a small portion of his social security taxes (most to be put into safe stable less risky investments) into a company like that, with a 45 year time horizon?
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Progressive income taxes and inheritance taxes will return to the government some of what their unique connection/influence driven opportunities have brought to them....will return some of "their money" fo the original source where it came from....our tax dollars, appropriated for war and foreign policy objectives.
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I think you underestimate the sophistication of wealthy people. They basically pay what they want to pay, if it ever becomes too painful they avoid the pain.
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Can you point to any comparable "fairness" and offset to the rest of us, compared to the profits that my linked post shows went to these guys, that would be included in your tax "reform"?
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In principle, don't tax work, tax consumption. Don't tax savings, tax consumption. Don't tax investments, tax consumption. Tax based on usage.
We can have a safety net, but we don't need a system that in affect steals from one person so another can benefit.
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Originally Posted by willravel
I won't give my money to a private corporation interested in turning a profit. I'll stop paying social security before I'll pay into a privatized system. Social Security is in trouble because the $509b surplus Bush inherited from Clinton was spent so that he could cut taxes and still spend billions on the Iraqi war.
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Am I understanding correctly - You think the problem with social security is Bush's fault?