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roachboy · 07-18-2007, 01:39 PM

btw: freud was also engaged in a therapeutic practice and many of his main metabooks do the same thing that i have been talking about regarding "human nature"--civilization and its discontents and totem and taboo are exercises in the archaeology of myths that explain something of how middle-class austria/europe appeared to be to freud in the 1930s--they isolate certain behaviours and try to explain them by situating them in relation to western myth structures (c&d) or in terms of some (now outmoded) golden bough-style transcultural fantasy (t&t). it's not that these texts are not interesting--quite the contrary--but they arent exactly guides for either living or thinking about how one might live.

btw: a characteristic of classical freudian psychoanalysis as a treatment regime is the bracketing of politics up front. an analyst would not say to a patient that response x or y which is understood socially as being problematic originates in an accurate political interpretation of the cultural context within which the patient operates. the context is given, the problematic responses remain problematic and therapy is about helping the patient get back to being able to function within that context--again NO MATTER WHAT THAT CONTEXT IS, NO MATTER HOW IT IS ORGANIZED.

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on counterfactuals: they are an interesting parlor game.
the devil is in the details of course--usually these details start with the assumptions about causation--a famous counterfactual exercise (cant remember who did it) involved trying to figure out what railroads meant by trying to figure out what the u.s. would look like had they never happened. the problem is not so much the erasing of railroads but in the figuring out of what "caused" them and what they in turn "caused" so the model can be something beyond simply erasing the rail lines from a map.

what's interesting about them is that they remind you that the present arrangement is neither inevitable or necessary.

but that's all they generally do.

but it's a bit difficult to work out how on the one hand you might find counterfactuals interesting and on the other hold to a notion of some immutable human nature. i dont get that.

07-18-2007, 01:39 PM	#127 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	btw: freud was also engaged in a therapeutic practice and many of his main metabooks do the same thing that i have been talking about regarding "human nature"--civilization and its discontents and totem and taboo are exercises in the archaeology of myths that explain something of how middle-class austria/europe appeared to be to freud in the 1930s--they isolate certain behaviours and try to explain them by situating them in relation to western myth structures (c&d) or in terms of some (now outmoded) golden bough-style transcultural fantasy (t&t). it's not that these texts are not interesting--quite the contrary--but they arent exactly guides for either living or thinking about how one might live. btw: a characteristic of classical freudian psychoanalysis as a treatment regime is the bracketing of politics up front. an analyst would not say to a patient that response x or y which is understood socially as being problematic originates in an accurate political interpretation of the cultural context within which the patient operates. the context is given, the problematic responses remain problematic and therapy is about helping the patient get back to being able to function within that context--again NO MATTER WHAT THAT CONTEXT IS, NO MATTER HOW IT IS ORGANIZED. ============================= on counterfactuals: they are an interesting parlor game. the devil is in the details of course--usually these details start with the assumptions about causation--a famous counterfactual exercise (cant remember who did it) involved trying to figure out what railroads meant by trying to figure out what the u.s. would look like had they never happened. the problem is not so much the erasing of railroads but in the figuring out of what "caused" them and what they in turn "caused" so the model can be something beyond simply erasing the rail lines from a map. what's interesting about them is that they remind you that the present arrangement is neither inevitable or necessary. but that's all they generally do. but it's a bit difficult to work out how on the one hand you might find counterfactuals interesting and on the other hold to a notion of some immutable human nature. i dont get that. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 07-18-2007 at 01:44 PM..