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Originally Posted by pan6467
So, basically you are telling me you want to control the debate. You want people to debate only by your beliefs, so that in doing so perhaps you can control the outcome.
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I'm telling you 'human nature' is a useless term in the context of this thread. It stops debate because it's so open ended, vague, and yes outdated, that human nature can't be argued. I'm reminded of when I'm debating god and someone starts presupposing god. It kills the discussion, and any hope of progress.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
I have much Psychology training and I am very well read in the field. (Have to be because I am in the business also.) I may not have a doctorate or Masters, but I know people and I am a good study and have studied human nature and know it exists.
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How does one 'study human nature'? You watch people glutton?
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Originally Posted by pan6467
I have no more proof at what I say than you do. You can present your argument, but none of what you say truly can disprove human nature/emotions/individual free will.
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If you'd like for me to pull up studies about twins I can, but it'd be a massive threadjack. Of my own thread. My point was that you made up a study in your mind, and thus the results aren't exactly reliable. What if Jung did that?
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Originally Posted by pan6467
The movie analogy stated 100 RANDOM people..... in order to be random you cannot know anything about them before they go in other than how they look. But you imply that you would want backgrounds and yada yada.... that takes away some of the randomness though.
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The analogy doesn't work because you fixed the results. I can make analogies, too, but it doesn't mean anything.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
It would make for a good study. Take 100 pure randoms and make predictions just based on look, and then take 100 people whom you have background knowledge of and make the same predictions.... Of course knowing the backgrounds, you'd know who would probably like Annie Hall and who probably wouldn't, but that would be about it. I never stated fact, I said chances are.
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What do predictions based on look have to do with human nature? I think you're getting lost.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
Sorry Will, I like you, respect you and yes, I also call you friend. But I am also in the field and I could not disagree more on the subject.
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I'm not in the field. I have my degree, after helping my mom get her doctorate.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
Let's say someone is raised in a certain religion, everyone they know is of that religion, how does that person decide to take a different religion?
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It could be one of a thousand things. You're asking hypotheticals where I'd need real world. And I'm not even licensed. With a licensed psychologist, you'd have a better chance of figuring it out.
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Originally Posted by pan6467
As for bringing philosophy and this into politics, you are the one who did so. You stated what you wanted in the thread and after I had invested my time in this thread, I felt I should be able to point out, I wholeheartedly disagree with the parameters you are wanting.
What exactly are you wanting from this thread? Are you asking how can we have peace? Are you asking what people think and feel on the subject or are you wanting solutions only?
If you want solutions only, that everyone can agree upon, you will never get them, no matter how you try to set the parameters of the debate.
BTW, just because "Psychology and Psychiatry" are "sciences" does not mean they are in any way shape or form concrete sciences, with concrete answers. To believe so is foolish and will eventually hurt you.
And yes, if you wish to continue this we can go to Tilted Philosophy..... however, in this thread obviously my answers and debate are not welcomed because they do not meet the parameters you have decided to set already deeply into the debate.... so I will leave this thread, for you to have your controlled debate.
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Step 1: One of my favorite John Lennon quotes was "give peace a chance". I dare you to argue with that ideal. So I think we can all agree that peace is better than war.
Step 2: For those who make war, why do you do it? What makes war a better alternative than peace? Why is killing someone going to achieve a greater good in your mind?
Step 3: How can we stop war?