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roachboy · 07-17-2007, 06:58 PM

without a rethinking of basic structures and basic ways of doing things--which cant be just a matter of people trying to be nice to each other and perhaps embrace the buddah, but has to involve the entire socio-economic order within which we operate and that we have effectively exported over big areas of the world--you'll have lots of war.

it'd probably have to involve a decentralization of economic organization--but there's still have to be infrastructure, so there'd still be centralized functions--so economic reorganization is too narrow even in the abstract---so there'd have to be a political decentralization as well, a multiplication of centers of organization and political power. some kind of tending-toward direct democratic organizational forms--so folk could be in a position to get information and operate within responsive structures (though who knows how responsive folk really want organizations to be--too much of that stuff and you'll have to start taking responsibility for what you do--it's a two edged thing.)

i think people replicate the ideology they live under all the time.
it's a problem. we are adaptable beings and lots of how we think moves as the bigger frameworks we think through move.
so you think war kinda sucks so how do we stop it and you say let's try to be nicer to each other and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a fine idea, who wouldn't argue that being nicer to each other is better than not being nicer to each other?

but if you think that actually responds to the question "how could we stop war?" then you probably watch tv--because the same kind of things are included and the same kind of things excluded in thinking "how to stop war" via "be nicer to each other" as are included and excluded in a tv image of the world.
and your thinking moves as the framework you think through moves. just like anyone else's.
it's no-one's fault, really. it happens by itself. it's the camera.

i dunno, maybe you could get at these problems from any number of starting points, and maybe embracing buddah would be a good thing to that end, but it seems to me that you at least have to think a bit about this other stuff...

07-17-2007, 06:58 PM	#94 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	without a rethinking of basic structures and basic ways of doing things--which cant be just a matter of people trying to be nice to each other and perhaps embrace the buddah, but has to involve the entire socio-economic order within which we operate and that we have effectively exported over big areas of the world--you'll have lots of war. it'd probably have to involve a decentralization of economic organization--but there's still have to be infrastructure, so there'd still be centralized functions--so economic reorganization is too narrow even in the abstract---so there'd have to be a political decentralization as well, a multiplication of centers of organization and political power. some kind of tending-toward direct democratic organizational forms--so folk could be in a position to get information and operate within responsive structures (though who knows how responsive folk really want organizations to be--too much of that stuff and you'll have to start taking responsibility for what you do--it's a two edged thing.) i think people replicate the ideology they live under all the time. it's a problem. we are adaptable beings and lots of how we think moves as the bigger frameworks we think through move. so you think war kinda sucks so how do we stop it and you say let's try to be nicer to each other and there's nothing wrong with that, it's a fine idea, who wouldn't argue that being nicer to each other is better than not being nicer to each other? but if you think that actually responds to the question "how could we stop war?" then you probably watch tv--because the same kind of things are included and the same kind of things excluded in thinking "how to stop war" via "be nicer to each other" as are included and excluded in a tv image of the world. and your thinking moves as the framework you think through moves. just like anyone else's. it's no-one's fault, really. it happens by itself. it's the camera. i dunno, maybe you could get at these problems from any number of starting points, and maybe embracing buddah would be a good thing to that end, but it seems to me that you at least have to think a bit about this other stuff... __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite Last edited by roachboy; 07-17-2007 at 07:03 PM..