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aceventura3 · 07-16-2007, 08:46 AM

I agree with you in the way you extended the Hunter Analogy to conclude the hunter had an incomplete overall plan and no real initial plan to convert the deer into something his neighbors could use. I enjoyed reading it too.

I also see how intelligence, (info from Uncle) was misused or ignored, however, the hunter spoke to his spouse about "the plan", she thought it was a good one - similar to the way Bush got input from Congress. Also the Hunter spoke to his other hunter friends about "The Plan" and they thought it was a good plan. The hunter had one piece of information indicating the plan was going to be ineffective, but many people would assume the family would eat the deer rather than starve, I know I would. But, the Hunter had others who failed to adequately confront him with the inadequacies of his plan. I would think it disingenuous if they were to later criticize the plan without taking some responsibility for their failure to challenge the plan, their failure to present an alternative plan, and the fact that they did nothing while the family starved. I would at least have some respect for the Hunter for attempting to help the family.

We also have the situation in your analogy where the Hunter attempts to modify his plan. Again, it proved inadequate given the circumstances. And again, I would give the Hunter credit for that.

Perhaps we are splitting hairs when it comes to defining whether there was a plan or that the plan was ineffective for the Iraq occupation. I take the position there was a plan and that the initial plan was ineffective in regards to the occupation.

I also take the position that like Bush, the Hunter reviewed his plan with others who failed to question his plan, take a stand against the plan, or present an alternative plan. Certainly in Bush's situation there were people who were against the use of military force against Iraq, but Bush did have authorization from Congress, the UN and other nations who supported our military efforts. I would argue that with the support Bush received the Iraq war became our war, and not "Bush's war". I also think Democrats are currently taking political advantage of an unpopular war. I am not making a moral judgment in my statement, I just think it is true.

I also take the position that like the Hunter, Bush attempted to modify his plan. Even with the realization that the family would starve rather than eat meat, the Hunters intent was genuine. I believe Bush's intent with the occupation of Iraq is genuine. I think Iraq is our global front in the war on terror, we need to stabilize the region, we need a strategic military location in the Middle East given Iran, we need a stable oil market, but I also believe Bush has a genuine interest in helping the Iraqi people realize the freedoms that can be realized in a democracy type government. I think we can have multiple goals and they not be in conflict.

07-16-2007, 08:46 AM	#49 (permalink)
aceventura3 Junkie Location: Ventura County	I agree with you in the way you extended the Hunter Analogy to conclude the hunter had an incomplete overall plan and no real initial plan to convert the deer into something his neighbors could use. I enjoyed reading it too. I also see how intelligence, (info from Uncle) was misused or ignored, however, the hunter spoke to his spouse about "the plan", she thought it was a good one - similar to the way Bush got input from Congress. Also the Hunter spoke to his other hunter friends about "The Plan" and they thought it was a good plan. The hunter had one piece of information indicating the plan was going to be ineffective, but many people would assume the family would eat the deer rather than starve, I know I would. But, the Hunter had others who failed to adequately confront him with the inadequacies of his plan. I would think it disingenuous if they were to later criticize the plan without taking some responsibility for their failure to challenge the plan, their failure to present an alternative plan, and the fact that they did nothing while the family starved. I would at least have some respect for the Hunter for attempting to help the family. We also have the situation in your analogy where the Hunter attempts to modify his plan. Again, it proved inadequate given the circumstances. And again, I would give the Hunter credit for that. Perhaps we are splitting hairs when it comes to defining whether there was a plan or that the plan was ineffective for the Iraq occupation. I take the position there was a plan and that the initial plan was ineffective in regards to the occupation. I also take the position that like Bush, the Hunter reviewed his plan with others who failed to question his plan, take a stand against the plan, or present an alternative plan. Certainly in Bush's situation there were people who were against the use of military force against Iraq, but Bush did have authorization from Congress, the UN and other nations who supported our military efforts. I would argue that with the support Bush received the Iraq war became our war, and not "Bush's war". I also think Democrats are currently taking political advantage of an unpopular war. I am not making a moral judgment in my statement, I just think it is true. I also take the position that like the Hunter, Bush attempted to modify his plan. Even with the realization that the family would starve rather than eat meat, the Hunters intent was genuine. I believe Bush's intent with the occupation of Iraq is genuine. I think Iraq is our global front in the war on terror, we need to stabilize the region, we need a strategic military location in the Middle East given Iran, we need a stable oil market, but I also believe Bush has a genuine interest in helping the Iraqi people realize the freedoms that can be realized in a democracy type government. I think we can have multiple goals and they not be in conflict. __________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch." "It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions on vegetarianism while the wolf is of a different opinion." "If you live among wolves you have to act like one." "A lady screams at the mouse but smiles at the wolf. A gentleman is a wolf who sends flowers."