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Originally Posted by dc_dux
ace....I wont characterize your arguments and thoughts as absurd, appalling, indefensible, idiotic (thats your description).
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In this thread I have been told there is no evidence to support my views by you. Deltona is appalled and considers something I wrote as insane. Roachboy said I can't articulate my idiotic premises. In many instances when I have posted my views they have been characterized in a similar manner and in some cases my views are ignored and I am attacked personally. I just point this out because I believe when those kinds of comments are made real discussion and exchange takes a turn for the worse. I also find it confusing, since I would not engage someone who actually had insane, idiotic or unsupportable arguments. So I wonder if some really believe what they write.
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I dont take the absolute position that there is no evidence to support your view...I simply ask you repeatedly to provide such evidence because I cant find it.
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My very first post - Carmona, as SG, used the power of his position to advocate criminalizing tobacco products. Later I provided information on the war on drugs and suggested that no SG advocated or promoted fact based science to refute the hysteria and misinformation because of political reasons. I posted information showing Elders was terminated for political reasons.
I present what I think is evidence, everyone has the option of looking at it or ignoring it, it is usually more fun when the evidence is discussed on its own merits, with its strengths and weaknesses.
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Instead you often offer such evidence as "I know what Bush was thinking when he did X" or "the Democrats did X too, but it just wasnt uncovered" or Dem X did Y for purely political reasons?" Facts, ace....I just want facts!
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Sure I do that, and I will continue. I enjoy researching and presenting facts but I also like understanding subjective issues that motivate and drive the issues we face. An example is your acceptance of mission statements and my rejection of mission statements. It seems to you a mission statement is a fact, to me they are words on a piece of paper or computer screen. With the SG's mission statement and lets say AIDS awareness education you conclude one thing. With the past actions of SGs over time and AID awareness education I conclude the focus on AIDS awareness education rather than prostrate cancer awareness education is political.
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But since you rarely are able or willing to provide facts or any evidence, I have absolutely come to the conclusion that you dont have a clue about how the federal government and the political process works...you just wing it to support a pre-determined position...and I base that on numerous exchanges we've had.
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I am the first to admit that I am not a Washington insider, and there are things going on in Washington that I am clueless about. However, I know and I am related to people who are Washington insiders and have career positions within the government. The interesting thing about them and you is how similar you guys sound and how similar your arguments are. I often suggest to them that they get out of Washington for a few years, live life outside of other insiders, start a business, etc. that suggestion really gets them riled up.
I doubt you read every post I make. there have been threads when I have posted lots of factual information, the 1992 Redux thread started by Host comes to mind, he and others presented a premise that I disagreed with, lots of factual information I presented was simply ignored. My general pattern is to post my opinion and then provide some factual information when challenged, when we get to a point when that information is ignored I usually don't present more factual information. Just like in this thread, you don't think I have presented any factual information, but I have.
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Using your AIDS example, Koop was not proposing any federal policy, legislation or regulations (ie political activity). He was simply attempting to educate the public on, what at the time, was a new and deadly disease and a public health threat, accompanied by reams of false information and fear of the unknown. How in the world is that a political issue and not a public health issue?
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Something can be a public heath issue and a political issue. But like I wrote above the decision to allocate X amount of time and resources to one health related issue over another is often a political decision. If there was an objective standard used, which there is not one, then I would agree with your position.
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I wont be waiting for that anvil to fall anytime soon.
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Something we agree on.