I feel like I'm arguing with a wall, so this is my last time through this.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Reading or seeing, the hybrid car movement, including the Prius, Civic, and Escape, have all advertised how they get better mileage. This was not a forced EPA number, this was them bragging about how their cars use less gas. You must see a difference between simply showing a number and openly suggesting the number is reliable as a selling point.
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You're wrong again. It was and is a forced EPA number. The number they are giving you is calculated by the EPA test, just like it was before. The only difference is that there's now a better test.
Their cars DO use less gas. It's just not as much as the original test showed. Obviously it is a selling point, but the carmaker can only show you the results based on the EPA test. It's a very good reason why they tell you your milage may vary.
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Originally Posted by willravel
If the salesperson wanted to be truthful, they could tell the truth. If they wanted to be passive, they just don't talk about it. That's not what they do, of course. They're as blissfully unaware as the buyer. Honestly, I'm not sure why the salespeople are even an issue here. They're hardly experts. Just the other day I was at a Mitsubishi dealership and the man wanted me to look at a third generation Eclipse. We're in the middle of the fourth generation. I *think* he was just repeating a slip from a manager, but the point stands. The salespeople are not mechanics. They don't have access or are trained with better information.
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I agree that salesmen aren't the issue. Let's let that drop. Sales is a creature outside of this arguement. We can agree on that.
I will point out that telling a customer that the MPG shown on a car sticker is a federal crime, even if it is techically true. Again, hard to blame any dealer or carmaker for that one.
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Originally Posted by willravel
The test should be simple. 100 cars are driven under different conditions and that data should be recorded and then given to the consumer.
You can bet your ass if the government said that the Hummer H3 got 9 mpg when it actually got 12 mpg, they'd be going nuts. Honda has consented to and passed on and promoted the incorrect information because it is beneficial.
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That's an incredibly expensive test that you're proposing. That's 100 vehicles that have immediately lost their value because of the mileage on them. Cars are tested on a dynamometer, not outside. Sure, that's a problem, but it's how it's done. And it's usually on one sample car, not 100. Asking for a carmaker to sacrifice 100 cars isn't econmically feasible. Perhaps laboratory tests aren't fair either, but results are going to vary season to season, locale to local and driver to driver. There's no way to factor all the variables in a manner that gives the consumer the absolute number prior to the sale.
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Originally Posted by willravel
What would have been ethical would have been to not suggest the information is correct. They simply don't push the incorrect information.
It's hardly futile when people are being detrimentally effected by this. I'm disappointed in the EPA for not doing their jobs. I'm frustrated with Honda for taking the misinformation and using it to help to fool customers.
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Again, it's a federal crime to misreport the MPG on a car as reported by the manufacturer. "Ethical" became irrelevant as soon as "legal" became involved.
You might find these interesting reading:
http://www.epinions.com/content_4524974212
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=104936
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/info.shtml#estimates