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Originally Posted by aceventura3
I get that, but there is the principle and there is the reality. The question is complex when it comes to drawing a line and determining when it has been crossed. The reality is that this is a very complex subject.
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Something like a repeat of The McCarthy hearings would concern me. I am not worried about "them" paying much attention to me talking to my wife about what we are having for dinner over the telephone. But, I live a pretty boring life - if I had something to hide, I guess I would be worried.
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I am sure there are a few government flunkies who want to see who Paris Hilton is calling. If they abuse their authority they should be fired and possibly put in jail. The goals of the program are as stated. If the Administration is using information for political gain, they should be put in jail. If there was any proof of that I would be 100% behind impeachment.
I don't trust anyone outside of my immediate family. during our history there have been abuse of government power, by individuals. Sooner or later those individuals will be held accountable for their actions, in this life or whatever comes next. It is unfortunate but life is not fair, occasionally innocent people will be the victim of those who are corrupt. In this case, I don't see any victims.
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ace....you want some examples of victims of illegal surveillance of citizens with the consent of the AG (and ultimately the WH). This is not under the warrentless wiretapping program, but just as intrusive...and it could have been you or your family.....
Attorney General Alberto Gonzales has said he was surprised and unaware of civil liberties violations committed by the FBI during its exercise of Patriot Act powers — including the use of so-called National Security Letters — until an internal Justice Department report uncovered them in March 2007. But Gonzales and his predecessor, John Ashcroft, were routinely sent notifications from the FBI when such violations occurred and had to be reported to the president's Intelligence Oversight Board (IOB), according to documents released this month under the Freedom of Information Act. Here is a timeline:
Feb. 10, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving an intelligence investigations of a U.S. citizen that went on for more than a year without proper notification or oversight.
Feb. 14, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving a counterterrorism investigation in which agents continued the collection of electronic surveillance of a U.S. person after a Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act court's order had expired.
Feb. 16, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving the improper search of a peson's property in an intelligence investigation.
March 18, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving an error during a counterterrorism investigation.
March 22, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving an error made by a telephone carrier during an electronic surveillance operation. IOB Violation Report
April 21, 2005 Gonzales is sent an FBI report of an IOB violation involving the prohibited collection of email contents through a national security letter due to an error by the Internet provider
...three months of reports directly to Gonzales and then days later he goes before the Senate Intel Committee (and again before the Senate Judiciary Committee earlier this year)and lies:
April 27, 2005 Gonzales testifies before the Senate Intelligence Committee in favor of renewing the U.S. Patriot Act, declaring "There has not been one verified case of civil liberties abuse."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...l?hpid=topnews
So do you consider this an abuse of power? Should Gonzales "be fired and possibly put in jail' as you suggested above?