Jenny Hatch

Abaya,

I am not here to convince anyone of anything. No one in the freebirth movement has ever said that unassisted birthing is for every single woman in the world. I am here to make the case that freebirth is DEFENSIBLE, which was the original question posted by High Thief.

Jenny

I find that statement, arguing with facts, a little bit simplistic. I have tried to explain, mostly to you, that this is a multi issue movement, with women of all shapes and sizes doing it themselve for a variety of reasons. It is easy to dismiss all of the arguments against UC presented here because I fought with my husband, the person I love and respect most in the world, about it for years.

As a highly intelligent and thoughtful man, he provided me with every male argument possible, and any he missed were happily provided by his mother and my mother, and after that, every single health care professional in my personal sphere painstakingly and I might add, condescendingly, took the time to let me know what a total loser I was as a mother. If you want to do the same, get in line.....

Many, I would even say MOST of the women who have recently come looking for information are in fact mothers who did not want to have a second c-section. Read these letters from a group of women in Australia, which has a 40% C-section rate right now, and you will get a feel for why women are giving birth alone.

This article comes from the Courier Mail in Australia, and the comments were in response to the June 2nd edict from the Royal college of OB's, please note almost all of them were written by mothers in favor of diy birth.

Here are the last four of thirteen comments:


Now the main reason that I chose to get into freebirth was because like you, I am a person who does not like to be dependent on anyone else for anything. I wrote an article for News Max the month after 9-11 making the case for family self sufficiency as being a key part in America Winning the War on Terror. Freebirth fits into the definition of Family Self Sufficiency.

I also wrote a primer on Emergency Childbirth for my web readers, and it gets huge traffic every month, with my most "send to a friend" links of everything on my site.


Wether the people on this board are concerned about terrorism, or natural disasters, or getting medically self sufficient or not, the fact is that many families are feeling motivated to wean from the medical system because of survival issues and are out looking for information. Wether that is religiously motivated or not is not for me to say. For our family, and for me as an individual mother, all I have to do is read Matthew 24 and know that having these skills during end times events will carry the day, and the baby and I will be just fine.

The most likely scenario I can think of for today is that we will have some sort of a pandemic and the hospitals will be overrun with sick people and healthy mothers will not want to risk going into the hospital to give birth.

Jenny


Laughing out loud as I type, I'm really sorry, it is hard to take your question about "orgasmic birth" studies seriously, especially looking at your avatar.

Angle?

I don't know too many women who would submit to a scientic study around freebirth just so doctors could document the fact that sexual things are happening.

As stated above, Dr. Odent has done a marvelous job sharing the good news in his book The Scientification of Love. I would challenge you to read that book and hear his arguments first hand. The list of studies that are included in my post #206 http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showpos...&postcount=206 would be a good place for you to start researching also.

I think you would find this article stimulating to read:

Nissen, E., Uvnas-Moberg, K., Svensson, K., Stock, S., Widstrom, A. M., & Winberg, J. (1996). Different patterns of oxytocin, prolactin but not cortisol release during breastfeeding in women delivered by caesarean section or by the vaginal route.Early Human Development, 45, 103-18

The hormones of labor are exactly those of sex. The doctors know this. They use Pitocin and Prostiglandins to induce labor (And as noted, lately cytotex). Freebirthers would argue that a cervix smeared with an artificial hormone tends to cause overpowering and painful contractions, and mothers who have felt the difference would argue that they would far prefer to have a labor started with a husbands seman rather than an artificial hormone dripped into the veins or slathered over her cervix.

After the birth doctors use similar agents to contract the uterus to help release the placenta and clamp down the uterus. Freebirthers believe that the stimulating effect of breastfeeding provides just as good, or better contractions for releasing the placenta, and breastfeeding has been proven to stop a post partum hemorrhage (and also allows the mother and child to bond).

Dr. Robert Bradley shares the anecdote in his book of walking past a birthing suite where a mother had just given birth and was bleeding out, and the doctor and nurses were frantically packing her with guaze and he said the baby was laying quietly in a basinet, largely forgotten by the staff. He said he picked up the babe and put it to the mothers breast and after sucking for a minute or two, she stopped bleeding.

It has been whispered about on the internet that some of those prostiglandins are produced from Pig Semen. Gross. Some of us are still waiting for various manufacturers to come clean on this topic and have written letters demanding they share ingredient lists with consumers. It's sort of like the vaccines that are being produced using aborted baby tissue. SHHHHHHHHH, nobody is supposed to talk about the ugly sides of medicine. They are scientists, and we parents are supposed to tip toe quietly when they start pontificating.

Not me. I start yelling loud and long on my blog when another big pharma fraud is exposed....

Jenny

Wow! Thanks for the link. I just found this here:

QUOTE:

From the Minature guide to the Art of Asking Essential Questions by Dr. Linda Elder and Dr. Richard Paul.


Man, I am glad those doctors took the time to write such breathtakingly profound words. I may have never figured it out if you had not shared that link, and then, you know, I went in and read it, and WOW, I just went, Sheesh, I never would have known that it was important to ask questions as a parent. Who would have guessed? I feel like I have been reborn, renewed of mind, body, and spirit. Thanks, you have changed my life for the better, and at the end of my days, I am going to put on my gravestone..."what would my life have been like had not Dilbert1,2,3 shared that profound critical thinking link with me????"



You da man!!!

Jenny


Thanks Sticky, I like the fact that you went right to the case notes. As stated in them...

"Judge Padovano went to the hospital
and convened a hearing in the office of
hospital Senior Vice President and Chief
Medical Officer Dr. Jack MacDonald. In
response to the judge's questions, Drs.
Thompson, Brickler and O'Bryan testified
unequivocally that vaginal birth would
pose a substantial risk of uterine rupture
and resulting death of the baby.


My question for these docs is.....How was it possible for Mrs. Pemberton to give birth to four additional babies at home unassisted after having TWO c-sections. They said that Unequivocally, she would rupture. Yet she gave birth to FOUR more children unassisted.



"Judge Padovano ordered Ms. Pemberton
returned to the hospital. Mr. Meggs and
a law enforcement officer went to Ms.
Pemberton's home and advised her she
had been ordered to return to the hospital.
She returned to the hospital by ambulance
against her will."

Again, we come back to my question...who gets to decide??


"Judge Padovano then continued the
hearing in Ms. Pemberton's room at the
hospital. Both she and Mr. Pemberton
were allowed to express their views. The
judge ordered that a caesarean section be
performed."

Why does he get to decide? Who made him God? What does this case mean for women who are giving birth at home, even with a midwife, against medical advice, and I can promise you, few doctors in America would encourage a mother with ANY c-section scar to give birth at home.


"Dr. Brickler and Dr. Kenneth McAlpine
performed a caesarean section, resulting in
delivery of a healthy baby boy. Ms. Pemberton
suffered no complications."

No Complications is in fact the ultimate issue. This couple felt so passionate about how horrifyingly injust this situation was that they moved out of state and then gave birth to four additional children alone at home. What the medical system in fact did is ensure that even if Mrs. Pemperton and her child wanted and needed to have medical care, they would never in a million years seek out that medical care, because their trust had been so unbelievably broken.

What is incredulous to me is that you use this case to strengthen the argument for HOSPITAL BIRTH??? hey, she would have ruptured, and the baby would have DIED. Uteri rupture in the delivery room all the time, and even the medical statistics prove that only one in four of those ruptures result in a dead baby. Yet, at home her body, no question, would have ruptured, even though that same uterus had worked hard to open her cervix 7 cms. The doctors don't know that. The family obviously were willing to live with the risks of rupture at home as they made the decision.

Some families will live with that risk, some won't, but who says the docs and courts get to decide??? And then send the police into the bedroom and force mom to have a section.

Sickening chill going down my spine.

As for the New Scientist study that claimed those stats are indicative of the current home birth movement. I say no. And the reason for this is the explosion in information in just the past ten years. When I was preparing for my first uc birth in 1996, I had a very difficult time finding any information, anywhere. In the past ten years a whole body of knowledge has been put up on the internet with chat rooms and email, and whole medical libraries posted on the web, it is possible for the parents to do the research and find out for themselves if freebirth is for them.

In a religious community that rejects modern medicine, which is not who the freebirthers are, giving birth from 75 to 82, this body of literature did not exist.

Within a matter of minutes a mother can have any number of questions answered, simply by posting on a freebirth forum, and make the informed decision as to wether unassisted birth is for her and her family. Some choose to have a midwife for prenatals, or even use a doctor for various tests, etc...and others say, NOT FOR ME, and that's cool. This is not for everyone. But to compare us to some inbred, isolated, anti-modernity community is not to describe our group at all.

Also, to assume that mothers who give birth alone are as un-formally educated as me is wrong. We have many mothers who are highly degreed, including Sarah Buckley, who is a medical doctor.

Those who have endorsed Sarahs Work have said this about her:
"Hoorah for Sarah Buckley! Her strong, authoritative voice is sorely needed..."

Ina May Gaskin Midwife and author, US

"Sarah Buckley creatively integrates mind/body wisdom with the latest scientific research to provide women with the essential tools they need to make conscious choices throughout their pregnancy and birth. "

Deepak Chopra Author 'Peace is the Way'

"I will forever be grateful for such words of wisdom, it has empowered, inspired and allowed me to experience a gentle pregnancy, birth and now parenting my son Matthew with rewards that amaze me each day."

Arletta Nikitiuk Osteopath, Melbourne Australia

"Sarah Buckley is precious, because she is bilingual. She can speak the language of a mother who gave birth to her four children at home. She can also speak like a medical doctor. By intermingling the language of the heart and the scientific language she is driving the history of childbirth towards a radical and inspiring new direction."

Michel Odent MD Author, natural birth pioneer


Jenny