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Originally Posted by filtherton
Get some popcorn, this one's a doozy.
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Empty calories!!! I'll have some dried blueberries.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
I agree that there is a lot of pop science available for anyone who happens to enjoy such things. The discovery channel is a mixed bag. I like that show "how it's made", but they do seem to have a lot of what amounts to skin deep infotainment(hello shark week).
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I love shark week.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
As it stands, most people have very limited knowledge of math or science, and if you happen to be going to school for anything remotely math-y or science-y they will readily tell you this if your area of study ever happens to come up in casual conversation. The next time you meet someone new, tell them you're taking a multivariable calculus class, probably 7 times out of ten you'll get a pair of wide eyes and algebra lamentations as a response. Then tell them that calculus is the study of the ramifications of division by zero, and 7 times out of ten they won't have any clue that you're full of shit.
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ROFL. You're a funny guy. I think the problem may be that people want to appear as if they know everything. It's embarrassing to be uncovered as an idiot, and people generally nod when they don't know what's going on. Maybe if people were able to separate themselves from a superficial intellectual vanity, we'd all be in a better place to learn.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
These people are vulnerable in a sense; it doesn't take much effort to fool them when they trust your authority on a given subject and have no idea what you're talking about. Just look at the current global warming debate. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of people who have a firm opinion on the subject have absolutely no clue about the models used to predict its effects. Even when you have two people who do know what the science is, they can and will offer widely divergent opinions on the matter (ustwo and i think superbelt).
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That's just the thing, the ability to go to a library and learn for yourself is available to everyone. I did some research and am convinced that global warming (global climate change) is real. Anyone is free to do this.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
All this blabbering is really just to say that the idea that we will be better off if more people fly the flag of rationality and science completely ignores the facts that:
1) Most people hate math and/or science(except perhaps for the pop variety).
2) Even people who love math and/or science are limited in their knowledge by the sheer magnitude of things out there to know.
3) A strong cultural commitment to science as a functional alternative to a cultural commitment to religion is meaningless if the majority of people in a society can't actually be bothered to learn the science; you'll just end up with an identical power structure that's just as liable to hijacked by those with ulterior motives(see stalin).
4) Human beings aren't rational in any sort of consistent way, therefore it is pointless to claim that there is any sort of more rational alternative to the current status quo. After all, the atheist position must assume that humans are self-organizing and therefore completely responsible for the current state of affairs. It isn't religion that has gotten us in this mess, it is us.
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Well to that I've said:
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Originally Posted by Willravel, the merciful
I think the only time we'll see a golden age in rationality will be when we're extinct and replaced by something that evolved a more rational nature.
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I recognize all of the correct points above, except that it's obviously harder to hijack that which is scientifically verifiable. How many Martin Luther's have there been vs. how many Einsteins? Both fundamentally changed their fields, but the Reformation stands in a small group of attempted corrections. Science is corrected every day. Also, there was no diet of Worms for Einstein. He stated facts, and while many backwards scientists disagreed, hey eventually came around.
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Originally Posted by filtherton
Now, none of this is to say that atheism necessarily need by thought of as the more rational alternative to religion, or that a bold new age of rational knowledge awaits us just beyond the horizon if only we can throw of the shackles of spirituality. It's just that this is the way that new atheism is commonly framed.
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The only thing I'd like to say to this is the following:
To me, believing in the supernatural suggests a susceptibility to believe in that which is counter intuitive or counter to reason. This isn't a bash of religious people, as many are seeking spiritual enlightenment and peace, it's simply my observation. I wonder about the ability to be skeptical among those who accept that which is unprovable. Atheism is the ability to accept being skeptical and reasonable so far as the supernatural.