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Cynthetiq · 06-30-2007, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ubertuber

The point being, you don't have to pay, and you can get procedures without authorization from your insurance company. Hell, many "patients" in emergency departments give false names and addresses. Again, they can do this because they won't be turned away until their conditions are stabilized.

Your motorcycle accident was traumatic for you, but it doesn't even scratch the surface of how expensive hospital stays and emergency treatment can be. What if you tripped on your shoelaces, fell and hit your head resulting in a subdural hematoma, requiring brain surgery?

What I'm getting at here is that "opting out of the system" is a state of mind. In no way does this "choice" mean that you don't take part in the medical care system. The only difference between them is whether you choose to pay, if you are able...

As I said in my last, overly long, post, the problem isn't uninsured people as much as it is the effect that managed care organizations have on the entire system - driving costs up for all users, insured and uninsured.

Also, regarding your admiration for Hatzalah... They are not able to provide the most advanced portable care options the way the hospital crews and FDNY do. They're not always speedier - that depends on your neighborhood and the "flow" in the city's EMS system that night. Lastly, and most importantly, regardless of what your quoted passage says, Hatzalah can and does refuse care and transport to people based on their medical conditions. I have personal experience with this from my days managing college Residence Halls. I'm talking about conditions that were serious enough that attending physicians in the hospitals would ADMIT the students in question for multi-day treatment. These students were effectively discriminated against by people with vastly inferior medical training. That's not a system I would want to have to rely on.

Lying to get ER care is fraud and a criminal act and should be treated as such. It is a felony to lie on a mortgage application.

My point with Hatzalah is that they are like other volunteer organizations not funded by any government or insurance monies. In my case they will be here faster than NYFD because many of them live in my building. The closest one is just a few floors away. I have no pride of their service since I have never used them. I just know many of them since they are embedded within my building. One of the vehicles is stored in the same garage that I park my car in a couple blocks away.

I cannot imagine the liability or lawyering that would take place had that student died because of the decision.

As far as opting out, again, I'm not opting out of the medical industry. I don't think that is feasible in any manner. I was opting out of the INSURANCE industry. Please note that big difference.

As Jazz explains it is about managing risk. I managed my risk to my knowledge and in my opinion came out ahead. My premiums would have cost me about $100/month and I was not paying into any insurance for 4 years totally about $4800. My medical expenses from my broken collarbone was just over $2,000. I saved a little less than $2,500 by not paying into any insurance plans.

EDIT the above figures are based on my current premiums. I spoke to one of my friends/coworkers from that time period and his premium was $300 if not more since the company was a small <100 employees. Adjusting those figures would have been $14,400 for 4 years. I definitely came out $12,000 ahead.

Fast forward today, and I no longer have that luxury.

I have been to the ER 4 times in the past 8 years, 3 of which netted me being admitted. One admission (thank you Daddy Quadro!) was overnight copay for ER waived, I don't recall the deductible for the room, I imagine it was small. The other 2 were admission for pancreatitis and resulted in stays for 7 days. Insurance paid for 1 of the hospital stays costing me a small deductible, the ER fee $75 was waived because I was admitted. The other not paid due to a paperwork error, I switched coverage from my own to Skogafoss. Insurance company stayed the same, but the coverage number changed. Almost a year later I was served with papers taped to my front door (apparently legal method of serving papers in NYC) to the amount of approximately $15,000 for the hospital stay alone. The doctors were another $2,500. The hospital was the same as the first, I assume the costs were the same.

Had I no insurance, it would have wiped out whatever savings we had and I would not be sitting in my owned apartment in NYC , but still renting in Long Island and in debt with medical bills.