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jorgelito · 06-29-2007, 05:45 PM

First, let's be perfectly clear. It's not immigrants that are the problem, it is the illegal immigrants that are the problem. There is a big difference. There are other contributing social ills as well. Will, I did bring up illegal immigrants already. Anyways, no one is saying they should be denied treatment (that's not very humane is it?) but rather, they are one of the causes of stress or burden on a strained system (LA is a fantastic example). It's two different issues.

Secondly, healthcare is a choice and people can make those choices based on risk. I disagree with you Jazz that people are "morons" if the elcet not to have healthcare. Even those that choose healthcare plans have choices of levels of service depending on their risks and needs. That makes sense.

I did not have healthcare for about 12 years. Why? Because I was young and at lower risk for medical problems. However, since I was young, I was at higher risk for accidents etc so I saved money in a separate account for emergencies. In other words, I was responsible.

When I got my job at Starbucks, they gave me health benefits even though I was part time. That is one of the reasons why I CHOSE to work there. It's a great company and fantastic corporate citizen. I could have CHOSEN to work other places but Starbucks had better benefits. I then chose a plan that fit my lifestyle (which was considerably cheaper than the family plan) so of course it makes sense to have CHOICE in selecting benefits that meet your needs and lifestyle.

I then decided to improve myself and went to college and as a result, got a job with even better benefits. We all have CHOICES to make and are responsible for ourselves. I came from a poor, immigrant family. But we worked hard, acted responsibly and deferred gratification. I worked the shit jobs, moved up, kept moving up and made myself better. Everyone should have saved up at a minimum 6 months worth of expenses and put aside funds for emergencies too.

In between school and my job, I had to have have surgery on my hand. No insurance. I had to pay $7500 cash. I used my credit card and some of my savings. That's the way it goes. If I had insurance, they would have billed $25,000. As it was, they we're annoyed that I was a cash patient and had to do all these special things to "bill me correctly".

That right there is illustrative of what's wrong with healthcare. $7500 to $25,000 price difference is pretty significant. The only difference is if you pay or if the insurance company pays. If the insurance company paid, I would have paid $4,000 or more as a copay. Plus all the premiums and stuff I would have paid over the years (couple hundred bucks a month) add up. The difference between having insurance and not having insurance in this case would have been negligible.

06-29-2007, 05:45 PM	#90 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	First, let's be perfectly clear. It's not immigrants that are the problem, it is the illegal immigrants that are the problem. There is a big difference. There are other contributing social ills as well. Will, I did bring up illegal immigrants already. Anyways, no one is saying they should be denied treatment (that's not very humane is it?) but rather, they are one of the causes of stress or burden on a strained system (LA is a fantastic example). It's two different issues. Secondly, healthcare is a choice and people can make those choices based on risk. I disagree with you Jazz that people are "morons" if the elcet not to have healthcare. Even those that choose healthcare plans have choices of levels of service depending on their risks and needs. That makes sense. I did not have healthcare for about 12 years. Why? Because I was young and at lower risk for medical problems. However, since I was young, I was at higher risk for accidents etc so I saved money in a separate account for emergencies. In other words, I was responsible. When I got my job at Starbucks, they gave me health benefits even though I was part time. That is one of the reasons why I CHOSE to work there. It's a great company and fantastic corporate citizen. I could have CHOSEN to work other places but Starbucks had better benefits. I then chose a plan that fit my lifestyle (which was considerably cheaper than the family plan) so of course it makes sense to have CHOICE in selecting benefits that meet your needs and lifestyle. I then decided to improve myself and went to college and as a result, got a job with even better benefits. We all have CHOICES to make and are responsible for ourselves. I came from a poor, immigrant family. But we worked hard, acted responsibly and deferred gratification. I worked the shit jobs, moved up, kept moving up and made myself better. Everyone should have saved up at a minimum 6 months worth of expenses and put aside funds for emergencies too. In between school and my job, I had to have have surgery on my hand. No insurance. I had to pay $7500 cash. I used my credit card and some of my savings. That's the way it goes. If I had insurance, they would have billed $25,000. As it was, they we're annoyed that I was a cash patient and had to do all these special things to "bill me correctly". That right there is illustrative of what's wrong with healthcare. $7500 to $25,000 price difference is pretty significant. The only difference is if you pay or if the insurance company pays. If the insurance company paid, I would have paid $4,000 or more as a copay. Plus all the premiums and stuff I would have paid over the years (couple hundred bucks a month) add up. The difference between having insurance and not having insurance in this case would have been negligible.