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Deltona Couple · 06-25-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshbaumgartner

All due respect to everyone who has been posting case examples as part of the discussion here, but unfortunately in the end, they are just that, empirical examples that don't indicate are represent what the real trends are.

What I don't see is what the actual rates are of successful defense against crime through use of a legal firearm in the hands of a would-be victim. I've seen these stats before and they seemed extremely low especially given the number of guns legally owned in America. But unfortunately, I saved them on a hard drive long since melted, and thus can't readily lay my hands on them. I am going to start looking, but if someone knows where to tack such specific data, I'd appreciate it.

The kind of data I'm looking for:

* Percentage of violent crimes in which the victim or intervening bystander produced a firearm.
* Number of these cases in which the crime was successfully stopped/deterred.
* Number of these cases where a victim's or bystander's gun ended up in the hands of the criminal.
* Number of these cases that resulted in a fatality

And stats about the cost of gun ownership:

* Number of cases in which a legally owned gun was used to commit a crime.
* Fatalities by legally-owned guns (minus self-defense)
* Victims of their own legally-owned firearms

Without knowing these numbers, and instead just relying on who can dig up more and better case examples from the news. AS interesting these are and as important as real-world cases are, they don't tell the whole picture, and relying on them can create a very distorted view of the big picture. I'll be looking for this data, but if anyone beats me to the punch, that'd be great, I'd love to see some good data being put up here to add to the discussion.

Here is MY example for pro-licensed gun ownership. As far as I am concerned, I fully back private gun ownership, but I agree that registration and special licensing should be regulated(i.e. like my concealed permit):

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Willravel
Maybe the real question should be, why, in my 23 years on this Earth, have I never had to use a gun? I don't even think I've ever been offered the opportunity. I'll tell you I've never actively seeked to learn about or aquire a gun, but really...you're suggesting mandatory gun training for everyone. For me it would be as useless as spelling.

First let me state Will, that I for one am not trying to change your opinion on this discussion. I am merely stating my OWN opinion as information to absorb.
Just because in your 25 years YOU have not needed a firearm, does NOT mean that nobody else has had the need. Consider yourself fortunate. While I am appaled that you were shot once before(I will say thank GOD that you are ok afterward) Not everyone that has been shot is as fortunate as you. I have a very good friend of mine that is alive today because of the fact that I carry, and no, I have absolutely no doubt that she would be dead if I hadn't intervened. You asked before If I had ever shot a criminal, and my answer was yes. Here is the situation. I had a good friend of mine who always seemd to date the wrong guys. One of those ladies you see in the movies always picking the guys who beat her up all the time. She was dating this guy who was always mean to her, but she kept telling me that it was "her fault" and whenever I called the cops after hearing them fighting, she would NEVER press charges.(needless to say he didn't like me much...I didn't care if he did) One Friday night, she had finally had enough, and told me that she was going to move out. He was out of town, and we were packing her things so she could move. Well he came home, and at the time I was in my apartment getting more boxes. I heard the yelling, and immediately went over to see what was going on, and he was standing over her with a pistol, screaming at her. He saw me, and while he was starting to point his gun toward me, I drew, and fired. 3 shots, center mass. The police of course arrived, I was arrested (don't think that if you use your firearm, even legally, that you WONT get arrested) and arraigned on Monday morning. When I got out, the charges were already dropped against me.
I got back home, and my friend was obviously distressed, but hugged me and thanked me. We found out a few days later that her "boyfriend" had rope, a roll of plastic construction plastic, a shovel, and an axe in the trunk of his car. So yes, I FULLY believe in the right to own and bear arms. If it weren't for my quick thinking and TRAINING THAT I RECEIVED IN SCHOOL(back then Firearm safety was IN school, and they trained you in safe operation and safety of MANY firearms) then things may have gone differently. Am I saddened that I had to kill someone? YES...I relive the fact that I killed someone....another human being. But I can also feel better knowing that it was done to save another person's life. Someone who was a dear friend.

I now step off my soapbox...