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Originally Posted by willravel
I see a difference between monitoring borders and kicking out or mistreating undocumented workers.
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I agree, but I happen to think immigration laws should be strictly enforced. I don't think illegal immigrants should be beheaded, flogged or forced to watch music videos from rap and emo artists. That would be cruel and counter-productive. But I wouldn't consider it mistreatment to send an illegal back to wherever he or she came from.
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Originally Posted by willravel
If we were suddenly to lose all of the workers in the US that are undocumented, I strongly suspect that we could be looking at an economic crisis the likes of which we've not seen in over a half a century.
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I'm willing to risk it. And I'm not convinced that Americans being forced to mow their own lawns and clean their own homes will result in a crisis. It wasn't that long ago that people actually did stuff like this for themselves. And even if there are some issues, I kinda see it as a form of "tough love". I think the only real potential for problems may be with agriculture. Perhaps prison labor would alleviate that?
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Originally Posted by willravel
The aren't just breaking and entering, though. In order to make the comparison apt, they would pay rent and work. It's more like having someone live in your rented home without the owner's permission....though even that comparison isn't perfect. They aren't sitting and mooching. They're working, and contributing to the GNP. They are an active part of our workforce, and a gift from god to industries like agriculture, landscaping, cleaning, and babysitting.
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They
are "breaking and entering", though. Breaking into someone's house is illegal, regardless of what happens once the person gets inside. Immigration laws should be enforced the same way and for the same reason: property rights (which would be known as "sovereignty" on the national level).
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Originally Posted by willravel
What, in your mind, would be a reasonable determination as to the necessity that would merit a temporary worker program?
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A complete collapse of our economy from which we could never, ever recover.
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Originally Posted by willravel
Also, keep in mind that the people who are here now are more likely to have a trade skill and speak English.
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Plenty of lawbreakers have trade skills and speak English. I see your point, but it doesn't change my mind. I don't believe that one's appeal to employers should be used to excuse violations of important laws.
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Originally Posted by willravel
It's a tough area because neither is really all that trustworthy....the idea would be to isolate their interests so as to avoid conglomeration and mutual greed. But that's for another thread.
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Agreed.
I've really enjoyed this discussion but we may have to just agree to disagree on the whole issue. I definitely understand your concerns and I think you understand mine, but I honestly don't see either of us budging much.
