Thread: Imus...
View Single Post
Old 05-10-2007, 08:43 AM   #175 (permalink)
pan6467
Lennonite Priest
 
pan6467's Avatar
 
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by ubertuber
Pan:

Are you referring to these two remarks, or did I miss something?
Yep.......

I can even live with the latter. But the original statement, is hateful, prejudicial, and divisive.

My whole argument (and this is similar very much so to my own experience that I argued from day one).... you cannot pick and choose who can label, say hateful and divisive things.

Either everyone who does it is wrong and should face the same consequences... (people demanding jobs be lost, retribution paid, public appologies etc.) or you allow people to say those things and let people make up their own minds about it.

It's one thing to say "Imus said something very wrong, I don't like it I'll turn the radio station and tell my friends to boycott his show."

It's another to punish him, demand he lose his job, threaten to boycott his sponsors and so on. And then go out there less than a month later and spew hate and prejudice.

I'm simply calling BULLSHIT where BULLSHIT hypocrasy is. If Imus deserved the scorn and hate of a nation for his labelling of others.... Sharpton should also (moreso because he led the attack against Imus.)

If Sharpton is going to be this pillar who plays speech police then he better be held to the same standards..... and yet as the posts show, and as the press kind of just whitewashes this and it fades..... we allow hatespeak, divisiveness, prejudice to be said.... but it comes from a black, democrat against a white republican.

As a Democrat and one who believes in what's right and what's wrong regardless of party affiliation..... I am ashamed that the vast majority in my party make excuses for this being ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Pan, I think you missed my point. Among other things, Sharpton is a religious leader. He's certainly a civil rights leader and he's possibily a political leader. I'm viewing his comments almost strictly in his religious role. He's a conservative Babtist religiously (not politically conservative, etc. - those are separate). If you look at this as a statement by a religious leader in the context of Mormonism in the US historically I don't see where it's devisive or labelling or whatever you want to call it. It's no more than saying "Babtists won't vote for a Mormon" or "Pentacostals won't vote for a Jew" by a preacher in those faiths. Maybe they're right. I don't know. I see this as a throw-away line acknowledging that some voters won't vote for people of differing faiths. Is that somehow new? The "faithful" aren't going to vote a certain way? Haven't we heard that before, and hasn't it sometimes been true?

Labels are impossible to remove from our culture or any other culture. We're all unique, but we all fall into groups like employed, white, black, tall, short, assholes (I forget the rest of it). Labels are groups. Groups are labels. People in groups share common things. Labels are misused by ascribing things that aren't true to groups - like Jews being cheap or Auburn fans being bug-eaters. Sometimes labels are wrong. Not always.
Ok let's look at it this way:
Quote:
Sharpton is a religious leader. He's certainly a civil rights leader and he's possibily a political leader.
I didn't know civil rights were just for blacks.... I thought it encompassed making sure EVERYONE got the same rights regardless of race, RELIGION, ethnicity, etc..... so if you are a LEADER of the civil rights movement, you more than anyone should be held accountable for prejudicial talk.

It is one thing to be in your church and say that as a minister, it is another to say that not as a minister but as a political authority, a civil rights leader and someone who is supposed to fight for the rights of ALL against prejudice.

Pat Robertson can say what he likes because he uses the guise of religion and everyone knows he's supposedly using religion to guide him.

Al Sharpton is foremost recognized as a Civil Rights leader.... NOT as a religious leader.

Do you think MLK Jr. would have spoken these words??????

As for labels, yes, we all label someone as soon as we see them or meet them. My argument is that if I start yelling at someone for labelling and pointing out their prejudices.... then when mine come to surface, I should be judged as I judged. Privately, we have those prejudices, biases and so on.... and as private citizens we can speak them. But if you are a public figure and you are going to burn someone for what they say.... you best not say anything your own damned self. Or don't get all huffy and start shit when someone says something or puts labels out, you don't like.

If Sharpton and people want to burn Imus.... then those same people need to pull away from Sharpton and demand the same penalties they did for Imus.

Otherwise, people who make excuses why Sharpton's hatespeak was ok and Imus deserved what he got.... lose all credibility and respect I have for them in this area.

If the presidential candidates who spoke out against Imus refuse to speak out against Sharpton..... I will have no respect for them.

Now, if you or they said, "I see nothing wrong with what Imus said, he has his opinion and is aloowed to speak it." and then you or they say the same about Sharpton..... then you or they have not shown any bias, hypocrasy or bullshit.

If you attacked Imus and you attack Sharpton equally, then you show no bias, hypocrasy or bullshit.

If you didn't attack Imus but attack Sharpton, you are showing bias hypocrasy and bullshit.

NEITHER one said a nice thing, BOTH said very vile, hateful, prejudicial things... so either you punish both equally or let both go .... but if you take sides... you are as wrong as they are.
__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Last edited by pan6467; 05-10-2007 at 09:16 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
pan6467 is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360