Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - Articles of Impeachment against Dick Cheney

The_Jazz · 05-01-2007, 09:54 AM

First, I must point out that roachboy must feel particularly strongly on this subject to have found his shift key so consistently throughout his post.

I will admit to not caring about the ideals of the system; I simply care about the functionality of that system and the best, most efficient ways in which the items I support can move through it. That said, the more that comes to light about the Iraq war, the more I come to believe that the system fundamentally failed. More accurately, I think the system was gamed by those in power.

Members of Congress who voted for or against the war did so based only on the information provided by the administration. To my knowledge no member of Congress has unfettered access to raw intelligence in the same manner as the President. The oversite committees receive only briefs prepared by members of the administration and could be steered in certain directions. I have come to believe that they were. The average member of Congress would never be allowed to see (and shouldn't in my opinion) restricted-access intelligence documents. They simply don't have the security clearance necessary. I think that answers the question of why Congress didn't ask for more information - they couldn't. They were only given the information provided by the administration and the rest of the executive branch.

I believe that Colin Powell was similarly steered.

Ace, you have been put in the unfortunate position of trying to defend something that I think that you don't agree with completely. As such, you've become the sounding board upon which all questions on this topic are tested. It seems that you still support the ideals behind the initial invasion, you are starting to doubt some things with the rest of us. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but it's just an observation from the last few months of these conversations and not meant to be taken negatively at all. With it in mind, I basically want to acknowledge your service as the counter-point to all the anti-invasion arguments.

05-01-2007, 09:54 AM	#77 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	First, I must point out that roachboy must feel particularly strongly on this subject to have found his shift key so consistently throughout his post. I will admit to not caring about the ideals of the system; I simply care about the functionality of that system and the best, most efficient ways in which the items I support can move through it. That said, the more that comes to light about the Iraq war, the more I come to believe that the system fundamentally failed. More accurately, I think the system was gamed by those in power. Members of Congress who voted for or against the war did so based only on the information provided by the administration. To my knowledge no member of Congress has unfettered access to raw intelligence in the same manner as the President. The oversite committees receive only briefs prepared by members of the administration and could be steered in certain directions. I have come to believe that they were. The average member of Congress would never be allowed to see (and shouldn't in my opinion) restricted-access intelligence documents. They simply don't have the security clearance necessary. I think that answers the question of why Congress didn't ask for more information - they couldn't. They were only given the information provided by the administration and the rest of the executive branch. I believe that Colin Powell was similarly steered. Ace, you have been put in the unfortunate position of trying to defend something that I think that you don't agree with completely. As such, you've become the sounding board upon which all questions on this topic are tested. It seems that you still support the ideals behind the initial invasion, you are starting to doubt some things with the rest of us. If I'm wrong, I apologize, but it's just an observation from the last few months of these conversations and not meant to be taken negatively at all. With it in mind, I basically want to acknowledge your service as the counter-point to all the anti-invasion arguments. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo