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cadre · 04-24-2007, 07:09 PM

Okay, I just finished the book Ways of Seeing by John Berger for one of my classes. (It's a good read actually). Anywho, it is a collection of essays writen by Berger based off of the tv show on BBC years back. There is a chapter on it on women vs men and I'm writing an essay on it. I thought I'd put it out there and see if any of you agree or disagree and why because in my class there were some very different views.

" According to usage and conventions which are at last being questioned but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is very different from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible his presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual - but its object is always exterior to the man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to or for you. His presence may be fabricated in the sense that he pretends to be what he is not. But the pretense is always towards a power which he exercises on others.
By contrast, a woman's presense expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presense is manifest in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste - indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura." -pg 45-46

" One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themeselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of woman in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object - and most particularly an object of vision: a sight." -pg 47

Personally, I agree with this. I can definately relate myself to the woman that Berger defines and from the interactions I've had with men I'd say that part is true too. I also think that this is starting to fade, that it was stronger and more noticable in history than it is today.

What are your opinions? Agree/disagree? Any women think of themselves like this?

04-24-2007, 07:09 PM	#1 (permalink)
cadre The Worst Influence Location: Arizona	Differences between men and women? Okay, I just finished the book Ways of Seeing by John Berger for one of my classes. (It's a good read actually). Anywho, it is a collection of essays writen by Berger based off of the tv show on BBC years back. There is a chapter on it on women vs men and I'm writing an essay on it. I thought I'd put it out there and see if any of you agree or disagree and why because in my class there were some very different views. " According to usage and conventions which are at last being questioned but have by no means been overcome, the social presence of a woman is very different from that of a man. A man's presence is dependent upon the promise of power which he embodies. If the promise is large and credible his presence is striking. If it is small or incredible, he is found to have little presence. The promised power may be moral, physical, temperamental, economic, social, sexual - but its object is always exterior to the man. A man's presence suggests what he is capable of doing to or for you. His presence may be fabricated in the sense that he pretends to be what he is not. But the pretense is always towards a power which he exercises on others. By contrast, a woman's presense expresses her own attitude to herself, and defines what can and cannot be done to her. Her presense is manifest in her gestures, voice, opinions, expressions, clothes, chosen surroundings, taste - indeed there is nothing she can do which does not contribute to her presence. Presence for a woman is so intrinsic to her person that men tend to think of it as an almost physical emanation, a kind of heat or smell or aura." -pg 45-46 " One might simplify this by saying: men act and women appear. Men look at women. Women watch themeselves being looked at. This determines not only most relations between men and women but also the relation of women to themselves. The surveyor of woman in herself is male: the surveyed female. Thus she turns herself into an object - and most particularly an object of vision: a sight." -pg 47 Personally, I agree with this. I can definately relate myself to the woman that Berger defines and from the interactions I've had with men I'd say that part is true too. I also think that this is starting to fade, that it was stronger and more noticable in history than it is today. What are your opinions? Agree/disagree? Any women think of themselves like this? __________________ My life is one of those 'you had to be there' jokes.