Quote:
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Originally Posted by mirevolver
And are you implying that our disproportional violent crime rates are because of our gun policy? Are you saying that I should cease my side of the argument just because you personally can't think of anyone off hand that would see my point of view?
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a) no, I've stated repeatedly in this thread that gun policies are not adequate independent variables (CAUSES) of violence
you are combining two different arguments: violence vis-a-vis gun control and that we don't have disproportionate levels of violent crime.
The first point is a matter of debate
The second point is not...you are empirically wrong
b) it's not offhand, it's within my discipline and career
you should stop misusing information you don't understand
your arguments don't make sense to someone who analyzes this type of data in his professional and academic career
I didn't have any problem with your *opinion*, but now you're slapping a bunch of figures around and making illogical conclusions about them...please stop trying to make arguments about better school systems, school violence, over all violent crime in Germany, etc. based off one variable of drop-out rates.
that's all I'm saying; I don't imply stuff so much as you try to head me off at the pass by suspecting what I may say.
you should note that both myself and roachboy, two of the most leftist people on the board, refuse to take a hardcore stance on the topic of gun-control on a national level. At best, we've both argued that it's totally irrelevent to this topic. But whatever, if you want to keep assuming you know what I think because you think you know my politics, I can't stop you but only suggest that you read what I say for what it is and not who you think I am or may be implying.
mirevolver, how do you read the portion you qouted and come away with the idea that it supports your claim that our violent crime isn't a concern and disproportionate? It clearly says that while crime isn't any higher HOMICIDES are. I don't want to be rude, but wtf is wrong with you people?
This is exactly why I asked you to stop mishandling the stats you don't understand. That's a WIKIPEDIA entry, as such it doesn't explain how we calculate "violent crime" in the US. In the US we compile stats on RAPE, ROBBERY, ASSAULT, and MURDER. I don't know how they do it Canada, for all either of us know, Canadians consider burglary to be violent crime, too. SEE NOTE
But even if they used the same incidents, we have no idea how they are compiled. The only thing relevent to this discussion in CONTEXT is the HOMICIDE rate, since this thread has been, is, and will continue to be about KILLING STUDENTS. So lifting a piece of evidence that CLEARLY states our homicide rate is almost 200% higher than our closest neighbor worse than ignorant! We teach entire courses on international comparisons of crime rates, you aren't going to pull it off adequately from a WIKI blurb...I'm sorry.
2nd EDIT
NOTE: A few posts down you'll notice that I actually go read the wiki entry after my post is deleted on accident. When I do, I find that mirevolver leaves this second half of the sentence from his quote: "note from the references, however, that the US violent crime rate includes only Aggravated Assault, whereas the Canadian violent crime rate includes all categories of assault, including the much-more-numerous Simple Assault (i.e., assault not using a weapon and not resulting in serious bodily harm)."
What this means is that homicide in the US is almost 200% that of Canada.
Additionally, while mirevolver attempts to fudge the quote to give the impression that Canada's "violent" crime is double ours, what he leaves out is that what this quote really says is that only ONE measure, aggravated assault, is HALF of ALL of Canada's "violent" crime that includes everything from aggravated assault to assault w/o a weapon that doesn't result in bodily harm!
That's a MUCH DIFFERENT picture than mirevolver was trying to paint.
There is no way this data supports his position IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.
Furthermore, this is a universal opinion criminologists. I have never heard, seen, or read anything from anyone anywhere who deals with this data to suggest otherwise...except mirevolver.