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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
I don't know why Castro is relavent since Cuban involvement was limited to geography - it was a US/Soviet crisis. And no, we didn't vote for Khrushchev (not Castro), but we did vote for Kennedy, who's the one that put the bombers in Turkey to provoke the crisis in the first place.
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You don't know why Castro is important when someone is figuring out who was responsible for the Cuban Missile Crisis? Seriously?
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Your confusion of Soviets and Russians aside, that wasn't my point. The fall of the Berlin Wall was seen as the crowning achievement of the Reagan/Bush I era. It is by all measures a great foreign policy success, and my point in including was that the voters weren't responsible - those in power were.
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I'm 23. I never met the Soviets. I'd say that the fall could be attributed to tons of different things, but Bush was a big part by being a part of those who demanded the wall come down. I believe (not sure) that was a campaign promise, so I'd say that the voters can share some of the responsibility.
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
No, we aren't. If anything, we're responsible for electing Johnson as VP since he was the one who actually presided over the Apollo program. And it was the good folks at NASA who were actually responsible anyway. What did the office of POTUS do other than lend support and publicity?
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Nothing, but we don't vote for NASA, and also Johnson may have said no.
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
If this administration existed in a perfect vacuum, I might agree with you, but there were obviously other things that voters cared about. I'd love to see dc_dux wander in with some statistics on it since I'm too lazy to do it myself.
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I wonder what made them think that Bush would do anything for them? Unless they were voting for a president who would enjoy vacations and ignore intel.
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
Again, we are responsible for voting. We are not responsible for the actions of those in office once they are there. Are the people of San Francisco responsible for their mayor sleeping with his assistant/wife's friend? I don't think so. Were the people of Tennessee responsible when Ray Blanton started selling pardons to convicted murders? I don't think so.
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The mayor's personal life has nothing to do with his professional life, just like Clinton. Shit, both of them managed to do a lot of good. People just decided it was the world's business if they were getting some on the side. They probably love their soaps. As for Ray Blanton, members of his staff were found guilty, not Ray Blanton. We didn't vote for his staff.
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Originally Posted by The_Jazz
My point is that you and host have both argued that there have been illegal acts and that the Republican-voting public is responsible for those acts. If those acts are illegal, then how can the voters be responsible?
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Because he broke the law several times, THEN he ran again and got elected. Fool me once.....um....shame on you....you....um.....you're not going to fool me again!