View Single Post
Old 03-21-2007, 09:09 AM   #32 (permalink)
Willravel
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
 
Willravel's Avatar
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Unless I'm crazy (Which I'm not), I'm quite sure that you have made the absolute statement that God doesn't exist on more than one occasion.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I believe in the almost certain fiction of god. That means that while I recognize that god may exist, the probability is so low that his non-existence is a virtual certainty. And we're all a little crazy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Quite frequently you'll hear an atheist use the phrase "You can't prove God's existence!" (Which you have done-- Multiple times), to which you'll evoke the response "You can't disprove the existence of God." I want you to take note of the cause and effect relationship between the two. Is such a response desperation on the part of theists? Nope. It's merely exasperation at having to respond to the same old illogical argument over and over and over and over and over and over and... You get the point.
If your position and my position were equally opposed, you'd be right. They are not. You obviously believe in the existence of god. I'd have to equally but oppositely believe that there is no god for the two ideas to be equally opposed. When I say, "Prove god exists", I am asking you to defend your point. When you ask me to prove god doesn't exist, you're asking me to defend a point that is not my own. Most atheists are like me, btw, where they simply think that god is basically fiction. Let me put it in different terms. I think that pokemon are fictitious (and annoying), but if I were to one day come upon a pokemon I could understand that it's possible for this creature to exist. I have no evidence to suggest that pokemon are real now, so I think it's safe to say while I recognize that pokemon may exist, the probability is so low that his non-existence is a virtual certainty.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Odd question, but if this were a court of law would you consider yourself the plaintiff or the defendant?
Defendant, but that's really not important. The fact is that you absolutely believe in the existence of god. I think that's irrational. I've shown, by lack of any evidence, that god almost certainly isn't real, so you're position isn't reasonable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Because I believe in the Judeo-Christian God. Really, that was a simple question to answer.
But the evidence to support the existence of Zeus is the same as the evidence to support god. Why favor one over the other? Why is god more likely than Zeus?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
It's rather simple, Will. My belief in God stems from real life experiences.
You've met god, then? You've come across some evidence to tell you god is real? I'd love for you to share reasonable evidence that can lead to the natural assertion that the existence of god is a certainty, thus justifying your faith, and changing your faith to science.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
...Oh wait! Science can't qualify those (Remember the whole "Science is based on induction!" spiel I went through?) so they obviously don't count. Sorry. My mistake.
I sincerely hope you weren't thinking of listing things like 'a child's laughter' or 'someone reading the Bible and crying'.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I won't even begin to direct you to the numerous studies done on near death experiences. I also won't even begin to tell you what's wrong with trying to qualify other people's experiences based on your own.
Have you ever died? No? Then you're not qualified to tell me my experience was wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Wait wait wait wait...

On numerous occasions I've stated that science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God and that any belief stating God's existence one or the other were both illogical (That it, neither is more correct than the other). I'm glad you agree.
Both are illogical. Thank god (pun intended) that I fall into neither of those camps. You, on the other hand, do. Even if I was someone who absolutely believed that god doesn't exist, that wouldn't make your position any more logical. We'd simply both be wrong. Someone else being wrong doesn't make you right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
As I stated earlier, unless I'm crazy (Which I'm not) I could have sworn that I've seen you state as much in the past. Anyway, for argument's sake, let's just assume that you what you say is true. What do you have to say for your fellow atheists who DO assert definitively that God doesn't exist?
Let me make this clear: atheism consists of two parties: agnostic atheists, who like myself recognize that god may exist, the probability is so low that his non-existence is a virtual certainty (which are about 98-99% of atheists)... and pure atheists, people who believe absolutely that god doesn't exist (these are the 1-2% that are generally ignored). I don't speak on behalf of pure atheists. I speak on behalf of agnostic atheists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
...I believe I've already explained this before. My faith has nothing to do with spiting you. Fairly often I hear that attributing what we don't know to God to be illogical because we might know more tomorrow than we know today. To me, that's a cop (Because 'tomorrow' will never get here) but, you know, I let it go. One can only continue to deny the existence of God based on what tomorrow might bring for so long before they have to acknowledge his existence.
If your faith had nothing to do with spiting me, then why did you suddenly assert that every time I make an argument your faith grows? That's clearly a weak attempt at taunting, and you're hardly the first person to try and use that to try and make me angry. It's never actually gotten me angry, though it usually ends the conversation because when others make that statement, they have lost all my respect and they're not worth my time. There are plenty of people out there who are more than willing to actually listen to me, and who I am willing to listen to.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
Are you so helpless that you're incapable of looking it up? It's not nearly as hard as you make it seem.
YOU made the claim, so I have to look it up? I'm sure your professors love reading your citations.
Quote:
Bibliography:
1) Look it up yourself
2) Look it up yourself
I know plenty of Mexicans, Arabs, Asians, and yes even African-Americans who are agnostic atheists. I'm having lunch with one today as we go over performance standards for March today at work, in fact.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
I laughed to myself when I read this because I do believe my initial post stated:
...But I guess you didn't notice that.
You were trying to do a hit an run, and I called you on it. You suddenly dropped the race card, then you said, "Oh, but don't worry about it".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
By the way, Will, I must ask if you're arguing agnosticism or atheism, as it seems to be the former.
I'm an agnostic atheist. I hope that's crystal clear now.
Willravel is offline  
 

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360