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Originally Posted by willravel
Nice try. I am saying that belief in god is illogical, not that god doesn't exist.
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Unless I'm crazy (Which I'm not), I'm quite sure that you have made the absolute statement that God doesn't exist on more than one occasion.
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One of the worst arguments a theist can make is "you cannot disprove the existence of god". It's a stance of desperation.
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Quite frequently you'll hear an atheist use the phrase "You can't prove God's existence!" (Which you have done-- Multiple times), to which you'll evoke the response "You can't disprove the existence of God." I want you to take note of the cause and effect relationship between the two. Is such a response desperation on the part of theists? Nope. It's merely exasperation at having to respond to the same old illogical argument over and over and over and over and over and over and... You get the point.
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Agnostic atheism takes the stance that god almost certainly doesn't exist, and that belief that he/she/it does exist is totally unreasonable and illogical. In other words, we don't need to prove god doesn't exist.
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Or, in other other words, you don't need to disprove God's existence because you believe He doesn't exist based on what you know. Explain to me, if you will, how this is different from my belief that God does exist based on what I know? Really, we can keep going around in a circle if you wish. Your stance is, in your own words, just as illogical as mine.
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No evidence exists so suggest that god is real, so the burden of proof lies with the believers.
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Odd question, but if this were a court of law would you consider yourself the plaintiff or the defendant?
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Why don't you believe in Zeus?
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Because I believe in the Judeo-Christian God. Really, that was a simple question to answer.
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That's why I qualified the statement with 'in many ways'.
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Humor doesn't go over well on the internet, it seems...
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How is it reasonable to totally believe in something you admit is beyond your comprehension without a shred of evidence? I believe in the existence of elephants, though I've never seen one, but I have seen photographic evidence and I know people who have seen them.
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It's rather simple, Will. My belief in God stems from real life experiences.
...Oh wait! Science can't qualify those (Remember the whole "Science is based on induction!" spiel I went through?) so they obviously don't count. Sorry. My mistake.
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When I was younger I needed very serious heart surgery. I had a coarctation of the aorta that needed immediate repair. I was sedated, turned on my side and a rib was removed. While under sedation, while the doctor was working, my heart stopped. My blood stopped pumping for around 45 seconds. I was, for all intents and purposes, dead. Did I see unicorns and fairies? Nope. Shiva? Guess again. God? I don't think so. There was nothing. No consciousness. My 'soul' didn't go anywhere or do anything. It was simply as if someone flipped a switch and I turned off. That's what happens when you die. Your body's functions cease and the person you are ceases to be. You go from alive to dead. You don't reincarnate as a mushroom or go into heaven or hell. After death, your lifeless body decomposes. Everything that evidence tells us supports that.
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I won't even begin to direct you to the numerous studies done on
near death experiences. I also won't even begin to tell you what's wrong with trying to qualify other people's experiences based on your own.
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No. I won't know everything one day.
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That's not the assumption you make when you say that God definitively doesn't exist.
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Living your life based on something that we may or may not prove tomorrow is illogical, though.
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It's not illogical at all. What's illogical is continuing to assert that you don't believe in God based on what we
might (*Keyword*) know tomorrow. It's unknown what will happen tomorrow.
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No one can prove or disprove god's existence with any certainty, and yet you believe absolutely he exists.
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Wait wait wait wait...
On numerous occasions I've stated that science can neither prove nor disprove the existence of God and that any belief stating God's existence one or the other were both illogical (That it, neither is more correct than the other). I'm glad you agree.
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I think that his existence is very, very, unlikely, but I cannot say that he does not exist.
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As I stated earlier, unless I'm crazy (Which I'm not) I could have sworn that I've seen you state as much in the past. Anyway, for argument's sake, let's just assume that you what you say is true. What do you have to say for your fellow atheists who
DO assert definitively that God doesn't exist?
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So you're trying to present our two stances are somehow in equilibrium on some imaginary scale is wrong. If I said, "god absolutely isn't real": I could understand your being safe in your certain faith as being directly opposed reasonably to my own. That's not the case. My argument is reasonable. Yours has long since crumbled from beneath you.
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*Points above*
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In other words, if my arguments strengthen your faith, then your faith is rather weak because instead of being inspired by the holy spirit or something, it is faith to spite me. That's childish, and I doubt I can find a place in the bible that reads: "And lo Jesus said onto you, 'Atheists are douschebags, so believe in me to piss them off. It'll be funny.'"
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...I believe I've already explained this before. My faith has nothing to do with spiting you. Fairly often I hear that attributing what we don't know to God to be illogical because we might know more tomorrow than we know today. To me, that's a cop (Because 'tomorrow' will never get here) but, you know, I let it go. One can only continue to deny the existence of God based on what tomorrow might bring for so long before they have to acknowledge his existence.
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Show me a census done on atheists' race, or admit you don't know what you're talking about.
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Are you so helpless that you're incapable of looking it up? It's not nearly as hard as you make it seem.
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Frankly, I expected more from you than to try and make this a race issue. Just because I am white and you are black doesn't mean that this discussion has anything to do with race.
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I laughed to myself when I read this because I do believe my initial post stated:
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Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser
(Also, slightly off-topic, but I've always wondered why atheism is most prevalent in non-minorities. I guess, however, that's another topic for another day.)
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...But I guess you didn't notice that.
By the way, Will, I must ask if you're arguing agnosticism or atheism, as it seems to be the former.