Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community - View Single Post - T-80 Battle Tank

jorgelito · 03-13-2007, 12:32 PM

Great post Dunedan, this is what I wanted to kind of get into a bit. It is exactly these types of asymmetries that are interesting to me to explore.

The Israeli incursion into Lebanon is perfect example. But what about a balanced tank convoy?

EX: Tanks, APC's and infantry combined with some air support (helicopters)?

Or is that too "bulky" and still vulnerable? I am assuming in the urban warfare scenario, un-uniformed personnel with rifles, machine guns, AK-47s and RPGs etc in teams and all over the place. Snipers in buildings, mobile units on jeeps, that sort of thing. So like one dude jumps out and shoots off an RPG then ducks into a building or whatever. Grenades too I suppose or IEDs would be used. Are IED's powerful enough to damage a tank significantly?

I think there are a couple of plausible large scale tit-for-tat tank battles but only if the engagement of their context actually occurred.

1. Iran - if the US invaded Iran, air strikes and missile barrages are not enough. Still have to penetrate into the interior right? So, I am assuming the armored cav would have to be the main thrust of a ground assault. Say 2-4 tank divisions (does that sound right?) obviously with support personnel.

2. N. Korea - If the fit hits the shan and the US has to move against the NKoreans, then an invasion plus occupation would seem likely (although the diplomatic front seems to be improving). Most likely, aerial strikes and missile strikes to knock out the NK artillery and electronic systems. No way would the US cross the DMZ, too heavily mined. Invasion force would have to come by sea. Assuming the aerial strikes did their jobs, then the US and presumably South Koreans, would own the skies and proceed with ground invasion to take out nukes and Kim Jong Il. 2 tank divisions should suffice right?

3. China - this would be an utter nightmare I believe. If the US had to go to heads with the Chinese, I believe the US would win but at enormous cost, maybe even a Pyrrhic victory. It's such a big country, hard to control. Might be able to take the coast and that's it.

I was in Israel this summer and was able to get to the border with Lebanon where I ran into a tank convoy. The soldiers were nice and let me take pictures. I also went to the tank museum as well. If there are tank aficionados then I will post some pics.

03-13-2007, 12:32 PM	#29 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Great post Dunedan, this is what I wanted to kind of get into a bit. It is exactly these types of asymmetries that are interesting to me to explore. The Israeli incursion into Lebanon is perfect example. But what about a balanced tank convoy? EX: Tanks, APC's and infantry combined with some air support (helicopters)? Or is that too "bulky" and still vulnerable? I am assuming in the urban warfare scenario, un-uniformed personnel with rifles, machine guns, AK-47s and RPGs etc in teams and all over the place. Snipers in buildings, mobile units on jeeps, that sort of thing. So like one dude jumps out and shoots off an RPG then ducks into a building or whatever. Grenades too I suppose or IEDs would be used. Are IED's powerful enough to damage a tank significantly? I think there are a couple of plausible large scale tit-for-tat tank battles but only if the engagement of their context actually occurred. 1. Iran - if the US invaded Iran, air strikes and missile barrages are not enough. Still have to penetrate into the interior right? So, I am assuming the armored cav would have to be the main thrust of a ground assault. Say 2-4 tank divisions (does that sound right?) obviously with support personnel. 2. N. Korea - If the fit hits the shan and the US has to move against the NKoreans, then an invasion plus occupation would seem likely (although the diplomatic front seems to be improving). Most likely, aerial strikes and missile strikes to knock out the NK artillery and electronic systems. No way would the US cross the DMZ, too heavily mined. Invasion force would have to come by sea. Assuming the aerial strikes did their jobs, then the US and presumably South Koreans, would own the skies and proceed with ground invasion to take out nukes and Kim Jong Il. 2 tank divisions should suffice right? 3. China - this would be an utter nightmare I believe. If the US had to go to heads with the Chinese, I believe the US would win but at enormous cost, maybe even a Pyrrhic victory. It's such a big country, hard to control. Might be able to take the coast and that's it. I was in Israel this summer and was able to get to the border with Lebanon where I ran into a tank convoy. The soldiers were nice and let me take pictures. I also went to the tank museum as well. If there are tank aficionados then I will post some pics.