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Originally Posted by DaveMatrix
Why do you ask so many questions??? Really obtuse, sophmoric questions at that. If I didnt know better, I'd think you were trying to get under my skin. I see art as creative, not science. You know, right hemisphere vs left hemishere, logic & reason vs art & imagination. Why would think that I read the bible over and over??? Thats strange...... and as for a profound question, I suppose that would be different for all of us.
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I ask questions to better undrerstand your position. That's part of communication. I can't help if they "get under your skin."
You have a very simplistic view of the world. Let me tell you a story. Where I am, I'm surprisingly famous for what I'm about to tell you...
I was in a cafe called the Enchanted Forrest. It was fairly far away from campus but it had sofas and was run by a bunch of raver kids. I was drinking tea and studying calculus when a pair of attractive girls sat beside me. They struck up a conversation by asking me if I were studying for a test. Sadly, I had to admit to them that I had no test coming up and I was just studying for fun because I found my course so fascinating. In particular, I was trying to prove the *three hard problems without the help of the text book (I still needed the
least upper bound axiom). Anyway, they asked me why I liked math so much. I told them that I thought it was "so expressive..." They thought that was a weird description of math so I felt obligated to show them how expressive mathematics is. I continued to prove to them that √2 is irrational, as an example of the expressive power of mathematics. That was more than ten years ago. To this day, stories of a guy who picked up using the proof of the irrationality of √2 still circulate campus. Sadly, my name is no where in the story. I'm just referred to as "they guy who..."
* The three hard problems in calculus are the
intermediate value theorem,
extreme value theorem and
mean value theorem.
What's the point of this story? I like stories...
The point of the story is that science and mathematics require a great deal of imagination and creativity to do. They are expressions of ideas, just like any prose, poem, or song, with the caveat that they must conform to reality. It is every bit as creative as any of the arts...
I didn't think that you repeatedly read the Bible, in particular. I was referring to orthodox theology. You know, "bible study," rather than academic theology, where you study religion in an historical context. I was rebutting your claim that religion takes more imagination than science...
If you are honest when you say that the "the most profound questions" "would be different for all of us" then how can you say that "science can't answer the most profound questions?" Perhaps, for some of us, it can!
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Originally Posted by Seaver
Because I've gone through times in my life where everything fell apart. I was physically crippled, my Grandfather died, I was kicked out of the military (flying was the only thing I ever wanted to do), and was heavily in debt due to the military demanding payment for the college they (up to this point) paid for.
I did not find it comforting reading up on black holes. I did not find it comforting believing there is no meaning to this life other than to procreate and die so other generations can inherit.
Amazingly my life turned around after, in prayer, asking God to help me. It's still far from perfect, but I'm happy. No, I do not devote my life to him. Hell I can hardly ever make it to Church. However I did enjoy the feeling that there was someone to turn to beyond my friends and family (who did help greatly as well).
This is not a logical argument, but it is strong to me regardless. There is a quote, "There are no atheists in foxholes." When the chips are down most of us find our faith. As I said maybe it's childish, maybe it's ignorant, but it's strong and gives us strength in return.
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You do realize that my question was not directed at you, right? Not that there's anything wrong with that, I just wanted to make sure you weren't confused...
I had almost the opposite reaction. I've lead a depressingly painful life that would surely drive most people in my position to suicide. However, it all turned around when I was finally able to attend university to study mathematics. After giving myself to rationality, I was finally able to achieve happiness.
This is not a logical argument, mostly because I was a reasonable person long before university and religion had nothing to do with the problems of my life. The point of my story is that religion needn't necessarily be the solution to tragedy. There are many ways to find strength. Personally, I think the most powerful way to do this is to not kill yourself...
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Originally Posted by Seaver
I never said me believing in a God makes the God exist, which is what that implies.
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Well, in all fairness, you did say this:
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Originally Posted by Seaver
You see this as childish, maybe it is. However I'd much rather believe in this than believe there is no point our existence other than some sort of evolutionary hick-up, and in the end all we'll be is a dead body.
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...which suggests that you'd rather believe what's comforting than what's true. Incidentally, this is a popular sentiment among theists...
You also speak of the
Torah as if it weren't part of the
Old Testement. What's the distinction for you?